have you ever had a dui, or been close?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Pretty much my reply to the previous 4-5 posts, If we are worried about justifying costs and budgets, then why are (you) ready to blow 10x's the amount to prosecute bizzare penalties rather then prevent the issue all together? I thought the "other sides" opinion was to deal with drunk drivers and not be concerned about the cost? Or are we concerned with them only to try and put them in jail and not to fix the problem?

No amount of education or available transportation is going to keep a certain segment of drunks from getting behind the wheel and driving. We stiffer penalties keep them off the road.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Dion

No amount of education or available transportation is going to keep a certain segment of drunks from getting behind the wheel and driving. We stiffer penalties keep them off the road.

Right. Definitely right.

However, no amount of stiffer penalties are going to keep that one guy from making that one decision that one time. So alternatives are part and parcel with the solution.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Dion

No amount of education or available transportation is going to keep a certain segment of drunks from getting behind the wheel and driving. We stiffer penalties keep them off the road.

Repeat offenders, I'm more then on board when throwing them in the slammer. But I believe (or hope) this is a small portion of society. I believe there is a large segregation of people who DD because the options arn't there, and if we can fix that, you do it. I don't think it will come with a large price tag either.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Dion

No amount of education or available transportation is going to keep a certain segment of drunks from getting behind the wheel and driving. We stiffer penalties keep them off the road.

Yeah but why not have stiffer penalties AND work on better options for getting home after a night of either preplanned or impromtu drinking? I think that's what we're getting at, where as you guys are making it seem like it has to be one or the other.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Yeah but why not have stiffer penalties AND work on better options for getting home after a night of either preplanned or impromtu drinking? I think that's what we're getting at, where as you guys are making it seem like it has to be one or the other.

As i said in a post to Phanuthier, the options are already available. It worked for me in my teens and 20's and still works for me today.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by 4X4

A cost greater than EMS, fire and police showing up to a car wrapped around a light standard? Ok. Maybe not the perfect comparison, but the division between you and red, vs me, phan and flameswin is getting a little weird. It's starting to sound like you've got a problem for every solution. And the problem invariably lies in harsher punishment.

Taxi drivers are afraid to drive at night? Lets get them some plexiglass dividers. Bus drivers are hard to find? Up the pay. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for it? Charge a premium for these services. I know I'll pay.

Why are you bitching at me, I don't make the policy for cabs and transit.

I didn't shoot down the cab idea, I shot down the idea of using a lack of cabs as an excuse for drinking and driving. I said with the transit solution that you can go nuts as long as its taxpayer neutral.

My inherent problem is the people who are saying that no cabs, no transit, and my friends won't have fun as DD's means that even though its wrong, I'm going to drive.

Thats my problem.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Repeat offenders, I'm more then on board when throwing them in the slammer. But I believe (or hope) this is a small portion of society. I believe there is a large segregation of people who DD because the options arn't there, and if we can fix that, you do it. I don't think it will come with a large price tag either.

The options are there as i said to you in an earlier post. Yet somehow we need to create more options because drinkers refuse to be flexable or plan options ahead of time.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Why are you bitching at me, I don't make the policy for cabs and transit.

I didn't shoot down the cab idea, I shot down the idea of using a lack of cabs as an excuse for drinking and driving. I said with the transit solution that you can go nuts as long as its taxpayer neutral.

My inherent problem is the people who are saying that no cabs, no transit, and my friends won't have fun as DD's means that even though its wrong, I'm going to drive.

Thats my problem.

Guy. I'm not bitching at you. And nobody is saying that no cabs and no transit justifies DD. I think we're all misunderstanding eachother. You've got your priorities and I have mine. I guess, since it's never hit close to home, tragedy-wise, my concern is finding viable alternatives for people like myself who don't want to go around killing people, but also don't want to spend hours and hours waiting for a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE. You, it would seem, have a much more (excuse the pun) sober outlook on the matter. Why can't we just look at the options? I think we've (we being the three of us battling you and red) all acknowledged that harsher punishments are in order. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that viable options are not such a bad idea?
Again, nobody is looking for excuses to DD. Did anyone in this thread say that? Even once? No. So friggin relax.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow, totally trying to paint me as some evil ogre, thanks a lot.

Bottom line, I don't have sympathy nor believe anyone that makes an excuse for drinking and driving. I have an incredible amount of sympathy for people who's lives are ruined or ended by these idiots.

I see very little results especially when it comes to habitual offenders in the current system. I'm disgusted at the driver who received an 800 dollar fine for killing a girl recently.

I admit it, I'm jaded, the current system of going light on people when it comes to crime doesn't work. At some point we have to look at public safety by removing these people from the public or by taking away their weapons (cars and licenses)

I thanked this post for a reason. Sorry if quoting to thank isn't cool but I personally felt it necessary. I work in the bar scene. I drive my truck to the gig, and IF I end up gettin' down, I walk home...it's close enough!

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by redforever

So why didn't you walk home?

So, you are just trying to be argumentative here.

Because I just can't believe you are that dumb to think that no matter where you are in Calgary, you can always walk home- in the dead of winter. Most of your other posts show you as being smarter than that, so I will have to assume you are being arguementative for the sake of creating an arguement. I believe that is called trolling.

[ResAlien]

I think my experience with the CP angels is pretty well documented. Yeah, drunk driving is stupid. Problem seems to be a bit of a cultural one too though. Go to a hockey / football / basketball game? Have some drinks. Go out on the weekend? Have some drinks. Go out for dinner? Have some drinks. I'm all for the get more cabs out there argument, lordknows I should have used one. I just get a bit tired of the Puck Saints that have never, ever, ever had a couple beers and drove. No, I'm not defending doing it, but the high horses just get old. And to anyone who has lost someone, I'm sorry, not going at you. You are completely justified in your rage. Anyways, that's all for my random post.

edit: guess some of that ought to have gone in the confession thread. Fire away.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, you are just trying to be argumentative here.

Because I just can't believe you are that dumb to think that no matter where you are in Calgary, you can always walk home- in the dead of winter. Most of your other posts show you as being smarter than that, so I will have to assume you are being arguementative for the sake of creating an arguement. I believe that is called trolling.

I asked you what your friends did, your response was, some walked home. Obviously this is the same night you were drinking. So in the dead of winter, they made the choice to walk home, obviously not freezing to death. On the other hand, you chose instead to drink and drive home, right?

And I am the one with the problem? The problem is with those people who choose to make the wrong choice, knowing full well it is the wrong choice.

Then you were responding to my point that in small rural communities, public transportation is not an option. You said in small rural communities, most people could probably walk home.

Wrong, in small rural communities, most people live a couple of miles from the town. And as I pointed out, I lived 14 miles from town.

The answer is to drink responsibly, period. Call me a CP angel if you wish, call me a troll if you wish, call me holier than thou if you wish, I don't care. Quit making excuses for drinking and driving, there are none.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by redforever

I asked you what your friends did, your response was, some walked home. Obviously this is the same night you were drinking. So in the dead of winter, they made the choice to walk home, obviously not freezing to death. On the other hand, you chose instead to drink and drive home, right?

And I am the one with the problem? The problem is with those people who choose to make the wrong choice, knowing full well it is the wrong choice.

Then you were responding to my point that in small rural communities, public transportation is not an option. You said in small rural communities, most people could probably walk home.

Wrong, in small rural communities, most people live a couple of miles from the town. And as I pointed out, I lived 14 miles from town.

The answer is to drink responsibly, period. Call me a CP angel if you wish, call me a troll if you wish, call me holier than thou if you wish, I don't care. Quit making excuses for drinking and driving, there are none.

But I think most of us aren't trying to make excuses, we're just laying out the facts, saying "here are reasons why people unfortunitly decide to drive home intoxicated, that's the harsh reality, so let's think of ways to get rid of those excuses". ...and you keep shooting us down, saying there are no excuses, well that's not our point.

[jayswin]

....and just to add, I haven't read the whole argument between you and Ken0042, but I'm pretty sure he was just giving an example of a bad choice he made, and basically saying "there's lots of people just like me", so lets work on solutions to the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong Ken.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by flameswin

But I think most of us aren't trying to make excuses, we're just laying out the facts, saying "here are reasons why people unfortunitly decide to drive home intoxicated, that's the harsh reality, so let's think of ways to get rid of those excuses". ...and you keep shooting us down, saying there are no excuses, well that's not our point.

Thank You

(I felt this was worth a Thank You, not just a botton)

[ken0042]

And I never said anybody should excuse my choice that night. I was responding to the question "why would anybody do it?" And I have also stated that since that night I have learned not to trust the Calgary taxi service with my life. And that isn't a hyperbole- we are talking about life or death here. All other options had been exhausted

However, I would be willing to bet that every night somebody else makes that same mistake I did in trusting taxis. As recently as a few months ago I have seen MADD commercials telling me to take a cab home. What I am suggesting is a solution for those people; the more drunks we can keep off the roads the better- right.

So here's a question for you reforever- have you never driven when you were impaired? And by impaired I mean you could have been close to .08 but without testing you wouldn't know for sure. Or have you ever taken a ride home from somebody who was impaired?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ken0042

And I never said anybody should excuse my choice that night. I was responding to the question "why would anybody do it?" And I have also stated that since that night I have learned not to trust the Calgary taxi service with my life. And that isn't a hyperbole- we are talking about life or death here. All other options had been exhausted

However, I would be willing to bet that every night somebody else makes that same mistake I did in trusting taxis. As recently as a few months ago I have seen MADD commercials telling me to take a cab home. What I am suggesting is a solution for those people; the more drunks we can keep off the roads the better- right.

So here's a question for you reforever- have you never driven when you were impaired? And by impaired I mean you could have been close to .08 but without testing you wouldn't know for sure. Or have you ever taken a ride home from somebody who was impaired?

I can say with all honesty, a resounding nooooooooooooo!!! And I can say with all honesty, I have never even been close to the range. I am a one drink a night person, maybe 2 if I have a glass of wine with my meal, that is it. You might consider that boring, I however have a good time every time I go out.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by ken0042

And I never said anybody should excuse my choice that night. I was responding to the question "why would anybody do it?" And I have also stated that since that night I have learned not to trust the Calgary taxi service with my life. And that isn't a hyperbole- we are talking about life or death here. All other options had been exhausted

However, I would be willing to bet that every night somebody else makes that same mistake I did in trusting taxis. As recently as a few months ago I have seen MADD commercials telling me to take a cab home. What I am suggesting is a solution for those people; the more drunks we can keep off the roads the better- right.

So here's a question for you reforever- have you never driven when you were impaired? And by impaired I mean you could have been close to .08 but without testing you wouldn't know for sure. Or have you ever taken a ride home from somebody who was impaired?

As I just said, no, and I will also add that I do not use a cell phone or any other device when driving either.

I consider the fact that my daughter is still on this earth to some intervention beyond my control. I honor the fact that she is alive by driving responsibly.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by flameswin

....and just to add, I haven't read the whole argument between you and Ken0042, but I'm pretty sure he was just giving an example of a bad choice he made, and basically saying "there's lots of people just like me", so lets work on solutions to the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong Ken.

Yes, that is bang on.

And in my post above- what I am trying to say is we all make mistakes. Having the advantage of 20/20 hindsight, there are all sorts of options that could have been explored. Arange for a couch with a buddy who was close enough to the party so we could have walked there together. Not drink as much. Etc.

But all of those require planning, and while I do plan my nights better now- somebody tonight is going to plan on calling a cab, not get a cab, and drive home drunk. Odds are he is going to make it home just fine too. Then the next time he will be less likely to try to call that cab, and make it home fine again. Pretty soon that guy's plan will be to drive home no matter what, and eventually the odds will catch up with him and he will be in a crash.

So by seeing that there are cabs available, we will definitely keep one drunk off the road tonight, and maybe prevent a habitual drunk driver.

[CaramonLS]

I drove drunk once back in 2001. I was over the limit and clearly intoxicated and shouldn't have been behind the wheel of a car.

I wasn't caught or anything, never saw a cop or checkstop, but I still feel guilty about it to this day - because I know my actions could have caused some serious damage. The most I will have is 2 beers before I get behind the wheel and even that involves a good resting period in between.

No excuses. I just wanted to get home and sleep in my own bed and not have to get my car back in the morning. Thats all. Just being an idiot.