U of C Abortion protests

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

According to other posters in this thread, these people are promoting "their side of the issue" by harassing passersby and provoking confrontations with total strangers.

The University said in its press release that this group had contacted the school about the potential for violence. In other words, they said "we are going to be doing things on campus that might make people violent towards us".

Be honest. If PETA was doing all of the above, would you call it a free speech issue?

Yeah, I would. The true test for freedom of speech is that you support it when anyone does it. I feel just as much sympathy for the pro-life's tactics then I do for PETA's tactics. I still think they deserve freedom of speech and the public space to do so.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yeah, I would. The true test for freedom of speech is that you support it when anyone does it. I feel just as much sympathy for the pro-life's tactics then I do for PETA's tactics. I still think they deserve freedom of speech and the public space to do so.

I agree, they deserve freedom of speech and the public space to do so.

You can't use that freedom of speech to harass, insult and intimidate people. That isn't part of the deal. You can't make that public space so unpleasant and potentially violent that other members of the public avoid it or feel the need to run through it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I agree, they deserve freedom of speech and the public space to do so.

You can't use that freedom of speech to harass, insult and intimidate people. That isn't part of the deal. You can't make that public space so unpleasant and potentially violent that other members of the public avoid it or feel the need to run through it.

Agreed. Obviously have to draw the line at peaceful, non-contact demonstrations.

[photon]

Originally Posted by peter12

Totally agree.

So you admit a great deal of discomfort regarding abortion. I think most people do. That, to me, is an indication of how people truly feel about abortion. I read a great article about a "Lincolnian" position on abortion awhile back. I should dig it up.

Sure I do, I wouldn't feel any discomfort if it was a simple issue, but it really isn't. I can honestly say I probably wouldn't know how I would decide a particular situation until I was actually confronted with it.

However I hope I'd be able to look at it objectively enough to be able to make the best decision to do the most good and the least amount of harm.

I have a great deal of discomfort with locking people in jail for significant portions of their lives to punish them for their crimes too, but I don't have a better option.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jonesy

My understanding was that the pro abortionists are not threatened with jail or civic violations or expulsions, whereas the pro lifers are, so it seems like censorship to me.

Its my understanding that they aren't pro-abortion per se, they just feel that making concrete judgements while discounting all mitigating circumstances as irrelevant seems rather unreasonable and illogical...

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by Locke

they just feel that making concrete judgements while discounting all mitigating circumstances as irrelevant seems rather unreasonable and illogical

Discounting all mitigating circumstances? Nice job of putting words in someone's mouth.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

Discounting all mitigating circumstances? Nice job of putting words in someone's mouth.

[BuzzardsWife]

I want to go there with a sign that says ''use abortion as birth control''..just to piss em off

[flip]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yeah, I would. The true test for freedom of speech is that you support it when anyone does it. I feel just as much sympathy for the pro-life's tactics then I do for PETA's tactics. I still think they deserve freedom of speech and the public space to do so.

Ok. If it was neo nazis, would you still support their free speech then?

And BTW the University is not public space.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by flip

Ok. If it was neo nazis, would you still support their free speech then?

And BTW the University is not public space.

It's publicly funded... by taxpayers. The rest is made up by tuition and the protesters were students.

Yeah, as disgusting as they are, neo-nazis deserve the right to free speech. I don't support their message, I hate it. But we are better than the Nazis, we don't stifle the opposition. We let it out into the open where everyone can see its filth and decide for themselves.

[flip]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's publicly funded... by taxpayers. The rest is made up by tuition and the protesters were students.

Yeah, as disgusting as they are, neo-nazis deserve the right to free speech. I don't support their message, I hate it. But we are better than the Nazis, we don't stifle the opposition. We let it out into the open where everyone can see its filth and decide for themselves.

I know it is publicly subsidized but the University isn't exactly Prince's Island Park. It is a private institution for learning.

Either way.

The most amazing part is that the students were the protesters. Who are these psychos. Like other posters have said, it isn't just pro lifers, because you people seem to still have some sanity, it is the pro genocide crazies that get me.

How crazy they were came up in a few of my classes and I didn't once even consider the possibility that any of the peeps in my classes were one of the psychos. Who are these people? What are they majoring in? Misinformation? Propaganda? Religion?

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

What about the baby? What gives anyone the right to kill them? There is two humans involved here.

The lives of those who are born outweigh the lives of those yet to be born.

[DementedReality]

i am anti abortion and pro choice at the same time ..

that is to say, i would not choose abortion as an option in my life, but i support your right to make your own choice.

why cant others MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Reaper

The lives of those who are born outweigh the lives of those yet to be born.

How? We call ourselves human beings, not human doings. We are defined in what we are, not what we have done. How are the born different from the unborn in that regard.

[LIP MAN]

Originally Posted by peter12

Well, there has to be a trade-of. A social rejection of abortion would have to come with a variety of accomodations. Increased support for single mothers, increased community daycare and further support for community-based healthcare. The thing that really bugs me about the UofC crowd is that they refuse to acknowledge the huge responsiblity that protecting life entails. You have to give in order to be an effective protector.

Same goes with the handicapped. Thank goodness there are so many kind and compassionate people who give their lives helping those less capable than others.




It's at the heart of the ethics of our new technoscience and it deserves a lot more serious and rational attention than it gets, in my opinion.

I'm sorry, but I have a huge problem with the way you lump the "handicapped" and lack of consciousness, to almost a dehumanizing manner. As if you need to be an angel to work with people with various disabilities; which in fact is one of the most dehumanizing things society has lumped in to that "group" of people.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by LIP MAN

I'm sorry, but I have a huge problem with the way you lump the "handicapped" and lack of consciousness, to almost a dehumanizing manner. As if you need to be an angel to work with people with various disabilities; which in fact is one of the most dehumanizing things society has lumped in to that "group" of people.

I think you are really misunderstanding what I am saying. I am not saying there is any sort of inequality on human scale between the "disabled" and the non-disabled. I am also not saying that handicapped people lack consciousness, just that they certainly do communicate or see the world the way a lot of non-handicapped people do. To survive in this world, they do require compassionate and ethical communities to take care of them. That's a great part about being human. We don't operate on a survival of the fittest ethical paradigm, we protect and help the weak in our society. And yes, I know all of us are weak in some way, that's why it is a two-way street.

[flip]

Originally Posted by peter12

How? We call ourselves human beings, not human doings. We are defined in what we are, not what we have done. How are the born different from the unborn in that regard.

In the immortal words of George Carlin:

But let's get back to this abortion sh*t. Now, is a fetus a human being? This seems to be the central question. Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say 'we have two children and one on the way' instead of saying 'we have three children?' People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process. Continuous, just keeps rolling along. Rolling, rolling, rolling along.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by flip

In the immortal words of George Carlin:

But let's get back to this abortion sh*t. Now, is a fetus a human being? This seems to be the central question. Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say 'we have two children and one on the way' instead of saying 'we have three children?' People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process. Continuous, just keeps rolling along. Rolling, rolling, rolling along.

George Carlin was a funny guy, not going to go to him for ethical advice though.

[transplant99]

Im pro-choice as well, mostly because I believe a womans body is her domain and should never be forced to do something she doesn't feel she wants to.

That being said, i certainly understand the other side of the topic as well, but the nonsensical way they deliver their message at times makes it hard to support them in any way.

[REDVAN]

bump... just saw the news

To be honest, I think the charges will end up dropped. But this shows next years demonstrators that while the abortion protest should be allowed, there are common courtesy restrictions that must be emplaced (sp?) to keep everyone comfortable and not to force things on people when they don't want to see.