40th Canadian Federal Election - Welcome to another Conservative Minority (whee!)

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Brutally immature. I hope the person who put that ad together and authorizes it gets disciplined. I can't imagine that the PM or any of the senior Conservatives would have approved of it. It strikes of some kind of young university or high school prank.

I doubt a young university or high school student would have the power to authorize ads as a "registered agent of the Conservative Party of Canada" (which it says on the bottom). Harper himself may not have personally approved it, but setting up the notaleader.ca website and creating that content was certainly authorized by senior CPC campaign staff.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Brutally immature. I hope the person who put that ad together and authorizes it gets disciplined. I can't imagine that the PM or any of the senior Conservatives would have approved of it. It strikes of some kind of young university or high school prank.

I agree, what a friggen ###### bag. I hope Harper didn't know that was there. He did come out today apologizing for it. Me personally I didn't even see that bird there until someone brought it up here. Kind of blends into the background.

[Flash Walken]

Those pesky highschoolers and their elaborate, expensive federal election pranks!

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Dude, do you realize that Canada is larger than all of Europe? It is much straight forward in Europe to have high taxes on gasoline as it is realatively small, with a large population base and significant mass trans infrastructure.

Dude, do you realize that the vast majority of Canada's landmass is sparsely or almost completely uninhabited? It's not like there are thousands of commuters driving from Alert to Iqaluit daily.

If we have $2.50-$3.00 gasoline in Canada, NO one would be able to go to work because it would cost WAY to much.

Exaggerate much? The majority of Canada's population lives in urban centres where mass transit (or walking/biking to work) is a viable option.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Dude, do you realize that the vast majority of Canada's landmass is sparsely or almost completely uninhabited? It's not like there are thousands of commuters driving from Alert to Iqaluit daily.



Exaggerate much? The majority of Canada's population lives in urban centres where mass transit (or walking/biking to work) is a viable option.

Holy fata. Are you seriously trying to compare Eurpoean transit to Canada's and how far people have to travel in Europe compared to Canada?

wow

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Dude, do you realize that the vast majority of Canada's landmass is sparsely or almost completely uninhabited? It's not like there are thousands of commuters driving from Alert to Iqaluit daily.

You're right.. no one commutes from Alert to Iqaluit daily... but how about the essential and frequent road and rail traffic from Vancouver to Calgary, Calgary to Edmonton, Calgary to Regina, etc.

Germany's land size, with 82 million people could fit in Alberta from Edmonton to the US border. Ditto Japan and its 127 million people. There are significant advantages to density that Canada simply can never enjoy, particularly Western and Northern Canada. The time (and fuel) required to ship goods to cities and towns simply does not compare between Canada (a net supplier of fuel) and Japan (a net purchaser of fuel). Shooting the country in the foot for political ideology is very irresponsible.

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Holy fata. Are you seriously trying to compare Eurpoean transit to Canada's and how far people have to travel in Europe compared to Canada?

wow

Maybe he's never been to Europe or Asia? Or is it that he's never rode on Calgary Transit?

[FurnaceFace]

- I think Dion is a complete waste of space and look forward to a few months from now when there is another Liberal convention to put someone in control fo the party who might be able connect with voters and have true ideas and direction.
- I think Harper is the obvious (and only) choice to lead the country right now and am willing to give him his majority to see if he can actually lead.

What I cannot get past is Harper's about face. He has run campaigns and tries to come across as the guy who is above the crap politicians have spewed out for years. I recall his campaigns saying things like his party is more accountable and will not go back on promises and is more ethical than the others. What I've seen is his party do what others have. His party complained about floor crosses but welcomes them into their party with open arms. His party has (do I still have to say allegedly?) tried to at least indirectly bribe an independent. He says no election until Q309 but here were are a year early.

He says he's above the slings and arrows of dirty campaigns and now we have the not a leader campaign? I don't think he should spend any time worrying about Dion, Dion will self destruct on his own. What he needs to worry about more is trying to come across as a human. His pre-election call ads do nothing other than make him out to be some creapy guy (whoever said Jimmy Kimmel meets mannequin is bang on) and the "I'm just a regular guy sitting by the fire talking about issues, trying to look human" series just comes off as trying way to hard.

If he just stick to: "this is my platform, this is what we will accomplish if elected, we will do a good job and move this country forward like we've done/tried to do for the past couple years" then he'd win me over. Right now something about him bothers me.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Holy fata. Are you seriously trying to compare Eurpoean transit to Canada's and how far people have to travel in Europe compared to Canada?

wow

No, clearly European transit is vastly superior to what is available in North America. I never claimed otherwise.

Commuting distances in Canada vs Europe are not as different as you think, either. As of 2003, the average commuting distance in the UK was 8.5 miles (13.7 KM). In five of Canada's six largest cities, the average commute was less than 8 KM. Even Toronto (which has the longest average commuting distance of Canada's major urban centres at 9.2 KM) is still significantly less than the UK average. (Source)

According to Statscan, in 2005, 81% of Canada's population lived in urban centres. For most employees in urban environments, it is possible to walk/bike or take public transit to work. Your completely unsubstantiated claim that "NO one would be able to go to work because it would cost WAY to much" is a total fallacy.

Furthermore, if gas prices increased to the point that commuters were discouraged from driving, demand for public transit would increase which would in turn lead to better/expanded infrastructure being built.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Incinerator

Maybe he's never been to Europe or Asia? Or is it that he's never rode on Calgary Transit?

Or Kamloops transit, or Saskatoon transit, or Regina transit, or Prince Albert transit, or Red Deer transit, or Thunder Bay transit, or whatever.

Dion's plan impacts the whole country, not just the major centers.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

You're right.. no one commutes from Alert to Iqaluit daily... but how about the essential and frequent road and rail traffic from Vancouver to Calgary, Calgary to Edmonton, Calgary to Regina, etc.

Germany's land size, with 82 million people could fit in Alberta from Edmonton to the US border. Ditto Japan and its 127 million people. There are significant advantages to density that Canada simply can never enjoy, particularly Western and Northern Canada. The time (and fuel) required to ship goods to cities and towns simply does not compare between Canada (a net supplier of fuel) and Japan (a net purchaser of fuel). Shooting the country in the foot for political ideology is very irresponsible.

Obviously I'm not talking about commercial shipping between major Canadian population centres. My posts concern daily commutes from home to work, and in most of those cases, the average Canadian is no worse than the average European in terms of distance travelled.

Maybe he's never been to Europe or Asia? Or is it that he's never rode on Calgary Transit?

In the past five years I've been to the UK and France, and I use Calgary Transit frequently.

One thing that's really obvious as soon as you arrive in Europe is that nobody drives a large, inefficient vehicle unless it's absolutely required for work. Owning a truck or SUV to serve as a commuter vehicle is completely unheard of over there, precisely because gas taxes are so much higher.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

No, clearly European transit is vastly superior to what is available in North America. I never claimed otherwise.

Commuting distances in Canada vs Europe are not as different as you think, either. As of 2003, the average commuting distance in the UK was 8.5 miles (13.7 KM). In five of Canada's six largest cities, the average commute was less than 8 KM. Even Toronto (which has the longest average commuting distance of Canada's major urban centres at 9.2 KM) is still significantly less than the UK average. (Source)

According to Statscan, in 2005, 81% of Canada's population lived in urban centres. For most employees in urban environments, it is possible to walk/bike or take public transit to work. Your completely unsubstantiated claim that "NO one would be able to go to work because it would cost WAY to much" is a total fallacy.

Furthermore, if gas prices increased to the point that commuters were discouraged from driving, demand for public transit would increase which would in turn lead to better/expanded infrastructure being built.

I don't give to hoots about TO. You can't compare TO to the rest of the places in Canada and urban environments probably include any city. NOT just TO. Most cities have pathetic transit. MOST people other than TO take their vehcile to work because a) they live to far away from transit and b)it usually saves them an extra hour in commuting time. As for me, I live 75km from work. Most of the people I work with live 30km+ away from work.

And I sure aint going to be riding my bike or walking to work nor are most people in general when it is -40C out.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Obviously I'm not talking about commercial shipping between major Canadian population centres. My posts concern daily commutes from home to work, and in most of those cases, the average Canadian is no worse than the average European in terms of distance travelled.

I know thats not what you're thinking about, but that's what is really going to feel the pinch, and that pinch will be felt by everyone, whether they rock the bus pass, drive a Prius, or drive a Hummer H2. Transportation is the major reason why Fuel taxes and Carbon surcharges are simply not viable for Canada. Europe and Japan don't have that encumbrance.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I don't give to hoots about TO. You can't compare TO to the rest of the places in Canada and urban environments probably include any city. NOT just TO. Most cities have pathetic transit. MOST people other than TO take their vehcile to work because a) they live to far away from transit and b)it usually saves them an extra hour in commuting time. As for me, I live 75km from work. Most of the people I work with live 30km+ away from work.

And I sure aint going to be riding my bike or walking to work nor are most people in general when it is -40C out.

Where was I mentioning JUST Toronto? You'll note that I used that city as the "worst case" for Canada's six largest urban centres. The average commute in Calgary is actually less than TO, coming in at under 8 KM.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Where was I mentioning JUST Toronto? You'll note that I used that city as the "worst case" for Canada's six largest urban centres. The average commute in Calgary is actually less than TO, coming in at under 8 KM.

So what. How was that sudy done? good for the 100,000 that live down town and can walk to work and there distance is 5 meters to work, what about the 100,000 that drive to work every day? The people that live in airdrie, okotoks, chestermere? What about the 50 mins travel time that cost money while your car idles?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

- I think Dion is a complete waste of space and look forward to a few months from now when there is another Liberal convention to put someone in control fo the party who might be able connect with voters and have true ideas and direction.
- I think Harper is the obvious (and only) choice to lead the country right now and am willing to give him his majority to see if he can actually lead.

What I cannot get past is Harper's about face. He has run campaigns and tries to come across as the guy who is above the crap politicians have spewed out for years. I recall his campaigns saying things like his party is more accountable and will not go back on promises and is more ethical than the others. What I've seen is his party do what others have. His party complained about floor crosses but welcomes them into their party with open arms. His party has (do I still have to say allegedly?) tried to at least indirectly bribe an independent. He says no election until Q309 but here were are a year early.

He says he's above the slings and arrows of dirty campaigns and now we have the not a leader campaign? I don't think he should spend any time worrying about Dion, Dion will self destruct on his own. What he needs to worry about more is trying to come across as a human. His pre-election call ads do nothing other than make him out to be some creapy guy (whoever said Jimmy Kimmel meets mannequin is bang on) and the "I'm just a regular guy sitting by the fire talking about issues, trying to look human" series just comes off as trying way to hard.

If he just stick to: "this is my platform, this is what we will accomplish if elected, we will do a good job and move this country forward like we've done/tried to do for the past couple years" then he'd win me over. Right now something about him bothers me.

Excellent post. I think a lot of Harper's problem is that he's too smart for his own good. With his background, he probably knows more about parlimentary procedure than any other MP, and when he finds a loophole he can't resist using it. Either you admire his cleverness, or you find him the epitome of political doublespeak. For me, it's a bit of both.

Dion, I really haven't seen enough of. I'm hoping that at some point in this election campaign, he becomes Prime-Minesterial, but I'm not holding my breath.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Furthermore, if gas prices increased to the point that commuters were discouraged from driving, demand for public transit would increase which would in turn lead to better/expanded infrastructure being built.

But won't this increased demand and larger infrastructure result in higher taxes or higher costs on monthly transit passes? At which point won't some people revert back to driving after realizing how much transit is costing them?

Just playing devil's advocate...

[Incinerator]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Obviously I'm not talking about commercial shipping between major Canadian population centres. My posts concern daily commutes from home to work, and in most of those cases, the average Canadian is no worse than the average European in terms of distance travelled.



In the past five years I've been to the UK and France, and I use Calgary Transit frequently.

Then surely you must've noted the difference between the tube in London and the C-train in Calgary? The tube takes you to the door anywhere you want to go, anything you could possibly need is always within a 3 minute walk to a station. Whereas for the average Calgarian, the highly efficient Calgary Transit takes you to the middle of nowhere with their C-trains outside the downtown core and forces you to wait an hour in the winter for a feeder bus to take you back to your community, and you'd still have to walk 3-5 blocks back to home if your residence is located in the inner streets of the neighbourhood. Why do you think we have Park n' Rides at the train stations? And don't even get me started on doing groceries etc. without a car outside of downtown.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

One thing that's really obvious as soon as you arrive in Europe is that nobody drives a large, inefficient vehicle unless it's absolutely required for work. Owning a truck or SUV to serve as a commuter vehicle is completely unheard of over there, precisely because gas taxes are so much higher.

It also depends what the goal of said fuel tax is. If the goal is emission reduction, making new trucks/SUV less viable with increased fuel costs may not be the best idea either. Even a big SUV spews less crap into the air than a 10-15 year old compact that is good on gas. The goal should be getting the old junkers off the road. What was that study California did... one 12 year Accord shot out the same pollution as 20 new Accords. Yet, that old Accord is still pretty good on gas... a fuel tax might encourage that car's owner to hold onto it because they'd have less cash to buy a new one with only a marginal savings.

Also, many people who own SUVs have kids and need room for more than themselves and groceries. Once you start getting into vehicles that sit 5 adults or more, you're in SUV/Van country.

[Slava]

I think that there are a lot of conservative supporters who aren't willing to live by the rules that they advocate for the liberals. The fact is that Harper is purely looking to buy votes. He has spent $9 billion dollars in the weeks leading up to the election. Now he is cutting the taxes on diesel, which adds more to that figure. To top it all off he was running a razor thin line between deficit and surplus at the beginning of the year!

I have no doubt if the roles were reversed that the Liberals would be roundly chastised for the exact same policies.

In Dion, for all his other faults, you have a candidate who actually talks about the issues. He puts out plans for discussion. Case in point: The Green Shift. Sure not everyone agrees that this policy is the way to go, but what exactly do the conservatives plan to do to reduce our impact on the environment?