Family Sues American Airlines Over Peanut-Free Flight

[metal_geek]

A good way to deal with Nut allergies at Halloween is to buy every piece of candy that may contain nuts. That goes for all the siblings. Like 5 cents per piece that "may contain". The kids come home and are reading labels searching for "may contain", desperate to sell you all thier sugary nut infested treats . The kid feels special cause they sell all the stuff they can't eat instead of sad cause they lose candy. The end up with a bag of candy and 4 bucks in thier pocket!
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[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

How many kids, I'd be willing to say 1 per grade level per average school(just my own numbers) have peanut allergies, and likely half of thoes would be deathly severe.

Going by that, there are 3 kids in every elementary school in the country who could die in the scenario I described above with the handrails. That means hundreds of kids in Calgary alone could die from 4th or 5th hand contact with a tiny amount of peanut residue. 10s of thousands in of kids in Canada cheating death every day just by going to school.

Do you actually believe this? If so, what do you base it on?

I don't believe it for a second. You can wash all your hands and take all your precautions, but if this were true we'd have hundreds of deaths every year. We don't. We don't even know if there has been one.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Going by that, there are 3 kids in every elementary school in the country who could die in the scenario I described above with the handrails. That means hundreds of kids in Calgary alone could die from 4th or 5th hand contact with a tiny amount of peanut residue. 10s of thousands in of kids in Canada cheating death every day just by going to school.

Do you actually believe this? If so, what do you base it on?

I don't believe it for a second. You can wash all your hands and take all your precautions, but if this were true we'd have hundreds of deaths every year. We don't. We don't even know if there has been one.

Its not 4th or 5th contact... its contact period. It doesn't matter how it got there, it's if it got there. You don't have it there, then your chances of running into it are not gone.. just less.


2 or 3 deathly allergic kids per school seems close. It could easily go from 1. something kids to 3.something kids on average but that range would seem to be a reasonable baseline number.

How many kids in school are alergic to grass, or milk, or some other substance?... I have no idea, I just have a limited experience with nut allergies in schools, so thats all I can go on.

Regarding the death rate and 100's of deaths per year, I have no idea how many deaths occour per year. I don't know who really would, I don't know how many heart attacks, flu, cancer, bee stings, overdoses, suicides, rollerblading, swimming, or falling out of windows accidents there were either. I'd hazzard to guess that all of them happen.

Schools are better prepared for allergies and I think this plays a big role in the number of kids who die. Schools have epi-pens belonging to the student. They have training, the are aware of the student and can watch for it. You have to keep in mind, that as the children get older they are more self aware and are more prepared to handle potential contact situatons. Most of the "No nuts" stuff is in the elementary schools right now where the children need help to protect themselves. By the time they are 8 or 9 they've been well conditioned and better able to protect themselves. It's not like its a clear cut, kids in, bodies out statistic.

What is clear cut is if there are rules to bringing nuts into schools, there is a significatian decrease in potential exposure.
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#### TUB

[moon]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

That's not the issue. The issue is the airline stated multiple times that no peanuts would be served during the flight. The airline faultered on that promise, so the statement was false.

The airline never said that the flight would be peanut-free unauthorized peons told them the flight would be airline free.

The airline actual said that their policy was that they wouldn't guarantee that the flight was peanut free:

Originally Posted by Dion

American Airlines spokesman Tim Smith declined to comment on the pending litigation or the incident, but he said the company's policy on peanut allergies is posted on its web site.

It reads: "American recognizes that some passengers are allergic to peanuts. Although we do not serve peanuts, we do serve other nut products and there may be trace elements of unspecified peanut ingredients, including peanut oils, in meal and snacks.

"We make no provisions to be peanut-free. Additionally, other customers may bring peanuts on board. Therefore, we cannot guarantee customers will not be exposed to peanuts during flight and strongly encourage customers to take all necessary medical precautions to prepare for the possibility of exposure."

http://cw11.trb.com/news/wpix-peanut...0,912100.story

[moon]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

Its not 4th or 5th contact... its contact period. It doesn't matter how it got there, it's if it got there. You don't have it there, then your chances of running into it are not gone.. just less.


2 or 3 deathly allergic kids per school seems close. It could easily go from 1. something kids to 3.something kids on average but that range would seem to be a reasonable baseline number.

How many kids in school are alergic to grass, or milk, or some other substance?... I have no idea, I just have a limited experience with nut allergies in schools, so thats all I can go on.

Regarding the death rate and 100's of deaths per year, I have no idea how many deaths occour per year. I don't know who really would, I don't know how many heart attacks, flu, cancer, bee stings, overdoses, suicides, rollerblading, swimming, or falling out of windows accidents there were either. I'd hazzard to guess that all of them happen.

Schools are better prepared for allergies and I think this plays a big role in the number of kids who die. Schools have epi-pens belonging to the student. They have training, the are aware of the student and can watch for it. You have to keep in mind, that as the children get older they are more self aware and are more prepared to handle potential contact situatons. Most of the "No nuts" stuff is in the elementary schools right now where the children need help to protect themselves. By the time they are 8 or 9 they've been well conditioned and better able to protect themselves. It's not like its a clear cut, kids in, bodies out statistic.

What is clear cut is if there are rules to bringing nuts into schools, there is a significatian decrease in potential exposure.

Then that peanut allergy must also give them super human luck as well.

If there are that many kids that are deathly allergic to peanuts in every elementary school in Calgary and there hasn't been one death in all these years despite how easy it is for them to come in contact with deadly amounts it must be luck keeping them alive.

So I guess on one hand it sucks to have the allergy but at least it comes with a cool side effect.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by moon

The airline never said that the flight would be peanut-free unauthorized peons told them the flight would be airline free.

The airline actual said that their policy was that they wouldn't guarantee that the flight was peanut free:

If we believe the parents they never asked for it to be peanut free as the airline can not control what people bring on the plane just that American Airlines themselves wouldn't serve peanuts. They say peanuts were served and on reading that policy of American Airlines they say they don't serve peanuts. So the obvious question is why were peanuts served on this flight?

Or is this all wire crossing where the ticket agent etc were asked "can we ensure that there will be no peanuts served?" and the answer they got was "yes you can be assured of that" as they don't serve "peanuts" but rather other nuts products that may contain trace peanuts.

To me that is the most interesting thing...did American Airlines actually serve peanuts which goes against what their own policy is. If so they could be very well in trouble.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by moon

Then that peanut allergy must also give them super human luck as well.

If there are that many kids that are deathly allergic to peanuts in every elementary school in Calgary and there hasn't been one death in all these years despite how easy it is for them to come in contact with deadly amounts it must be luck keeping them alive.

So I guess on one hand it sucks to have the allergy but at least it comes with a cool side effect.

Takes alot of effort to make that luck. Ask any parent of a nut allergy kid, or any school administrator. It's also varies on the exposure, so it may take the equivilent of 2 peanuts for one person or dust for another. The most severe reactions are typically the injestion ones, as opposed to skin contact so that lowers the chances of a serious reaction alot.

Maybe my kid goes to the nut allergy public school cause there are 3 kids in his grade 2 class alone. I'd be curious to know how many other people in this thread with small kids, have nut allergy kids in their class.

Just because there hasn't been a death that you've heard of, doesn't mean there hasn't be deaths, exposures, or reactions. How many people died in calgary in the last year?.... I'm pretty sure there were a few more then what was reporeted on the news, but I guess if you didn't hear about it, it didn't happen...
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[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

I'm pretty sure there were a few more then what was reporeted on the news, but I guess if you didn't hear about it, it didn't happen...

I am 110% sure that if a kid died because of an allergic reaction, doesn't matter to what, at a school it would be front page news.

[FlamesAddiction]

A couple of years ago, there was a pretty high profile case here in BC where a 13 year old girl died at school because of a dairy allergy. She always had to a bring a lunch from home because she was so terribly allergic to dairy, but I guess she was having trouble fitting in because all of her friends bought their lunch at the cafateria, so she begged her mother to let her buy her lunch just once. She was trained since a young child to know what she could and couldn't eat, so they thought she'd be fine.

At the school, she ordered french fries, but what they didn't realize was that the kitchen staff used the same tongs for scooping the fries as they did for putting cheese on them for poutine. That little bit of exposure killed her.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by moon

Then that peanut allergy must also give them super human luck as well.

If there are that many kids that are deathly allergic to peanuts in every elementary school in Calgary and there hasn't been one death in all these years despite how easy it is for them to come in contact with deadly amounts it must be luck keeping them alive.

So I guess on one hand it sucks to have the allergy but at least it comes with a cool side effect.

You aren't suggesting that metal geek is massively, massively overstating the actual, real risk, are you? I'll be pissed if you are, cause I wanted to do it first...

It is so amazing that somehow, some way, of these kids who are so allergic that simply touching something that was touched previously by someone else who ate a peanut butter sandwich will cause them to suffer a horrible, gruesome death in front of their classmates, stories about kids actually dying from this are nearly impossible to find.

Seriously, with miracles such as this, how on earth can anyone disagree that God assuredly exists?

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by moon

The airline never said that the flight would be peanut-free unauthorized peons told them the flight would be airline free.

The airline actual said that their policy was that they wouldn't guarantee that the flight was peanut free:

No the peons told them peanuts wouldn't be served, which as ernie pointed out is actually part of the airline's policy to not serve peanuts.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I am 110% sure that if a kid died because of an allergic reaction, doesn't matter to what, at a school it would be front page news.

Likley... but you don't know what doesn't get printed in a paper..

Here are some recent raw stats to take what you want from....

Title: Analysis of food-allergic and anaphylactic events in the National Electronic Injury Surveillance System

Source: US National Library of Medicine, 2008 Jan;121(1):166-71

BACKGROUND: The National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS) captures a nationally representative probability sample from hospital emergency departments (EDs) in the United States. OBJECTIVE: Emergency department data from NEISS were analyzed to assess the magnitude and severity of adverse events attributable to food allergies. METHODS: Emergency department events describing food-related allergic symptomatology were identified from 34 participating EDs from August 1 to September 30, 2003. RESULTS: Extrapolation of NEISS event data predicts a total of 20,821 hospital ED visits, 2333 visits for anaphylaxis, and 520 hospitalizations caused by food allergy in the United States during the 2-month study period. The median age was 26 years; 24% of visits involved children < or =5 years old. Shellfish was the most frequently implicated food in persons > or =6 years old, whereas children < or =5 years old experienced more events from eggs, fruit, peanuts, and tree nuts. There were no reported deaths. Review of medical records found that only 19% of patients received epinephrine, and, using criteria established by a 2005 anaphylaxis symposium, 57% of likely anaphylactic events did not have an ED diagnosis of anaphylaxis. CONCLUSION: Analysis of NEISS data may be a useful tool for assessing the magnitude and severity of food-allergic events. A criteria-based review of medical records suggests underdiagnosis of anaphylactic events in EDs.
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[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by metal_geek

Likley... but you don't know what doesn't get printed in a paper..

One thing that is always printed is panic inducing hyperbole. Simply because it sells papers. A child dying at school from an allergy would be front page news in the town it happened in, and probably picked up nationally.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A couple of years ago, there was a pretty high profile case here in BC where a 13 year old girl died at school because of a dairy allergy. She always had to a bring a lunch from home because she was so terribly allergic to dairy, but I guess she was having trouble fitting in because all of her friends bought their lunch at the cafateria, so she begged her mother to let her buy her lunch just once. She was trained since a young child to know what she could and couldn't eat, so they thought she'd be fine.

At the school, she ordered french fries, but what they didn't realize was that the kitchen staff used the same tongs for scooping the fries as they did for putting cheese on them for poutine. That little bit of exposure killed her.

That case happened in Pembroke, Ontario. Her death resulted in the so-called "Sabrina's Law" in Ontario.

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You aren't suggesting that metal geek is massively, massively overstating the actual, real risk, are you? I'll be pissed if you are, cause I wanted to do it first...

It is so amazing that somehow, some way, of these kids who are so allergic that simply touching something that was touched previously by someone else who ate a peanut butter sandwich will cause them to suffer a horrible, gruesome death in front of their classmates, stories about kids actually dying from this are nearly impossible to find.

Seriously, with miracles such as this, how on earth can anyone disagree that God assuredly exists?

I think you are "massively massively" over simplifying the exposure, and obvisouly have no idea how severe allergys work.. it's not just simple contact in most cases.. that typically give rashes, irritation, hay fever type stuff that never goes reported. Typicaly the kid comes home feeling.."yucky" and thats the end of it.. The injestion is the real danger. Obvisouly a child dieing a horrible death in front of thier classmates would take a serious set of mistakes to happen, but it's likely high on the list of ways a child could die at school, which tend to be safe enviroments.

Typically severe reactions comes from eating a sufficient quantity of the allergen to trigger the reaction, which varies per child. If you are gonna eat a sufficient ammount of "peanut butter" from a lego, the first kids has to leave a rather large ammount, like a teaspoons size, and the second kids has to get that in his mouth somehow.

That's why as the kids get older, the second hand risk is lowered because by the time that are 6 or 7, giant blobs of random goo don't look as appealing as it once did. The kids are also more self aware, so random dirt from a hand rail gets washed off, and not licked off...

The point is, if the "peanuts" are not there in the first place, that chance is lower... it still exists but is way lower. As the kids get older the lunch "exchange" becomes a bigger problem so the "No Nut" policy stays in place.
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[Boblobla]

I think we should make these kids with allergies wear star shaped pins so we can easily identify them. We should also mark on their arm some sort of ID number so we can keep track of them. Maybe we could send them away to special camps...

[metal_geek]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

One thing that is always printed is panic inducing hyperbole. Simply because it sells papers. A child dying at school from an allergy would be front page news in the town it happened in, and probably picked up nationally.

You have to remember that there are no "Clinical Trials" with this. You can't feed peanuts to 20 allergy kids and see what happens. You can't give 10 kids fake peanuts and 10 real peanuts.

When your child has an ER style reaction to peanuts, is different then a "test" reaction to peanuts. Both children's next reaction can be fatal or pass quietly.. Each child is different, and there is no way to test for the "ammount" to avoid, so it comes out to be avoid it all. Who knows how many kids are contact sensitive, 1 nut.. 2.. a box... you can't test what will kill them so you just avoid it all together.

Untill something like an nut allergy happens to you or someone you know directly, it's rare, only happens to other people and is way over hyped...

I'm sure it would be picked up nationally if someone made a big enough issue about it... Like "sabrina's law".. and the airline lawsuit... would you have have heard or rememberd about that had the parents not made a big issue to change things and gotten on the news?...
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[Dion]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I think we should make these kids with allergies wear star shaped pins so we can easily identify them. We should also mark on their arm some sort of ID number so we can keep track of them. Maybe we could send them away to special camps...

Gotta love the ignore function.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Dion

Gotta love the ignore function.

Really? Wow, I would have thought that was dripping with enough sarcasm not to be taken seriously but apparently not.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

That case happened in Pembroke, Ontario. Her death resulted in the so-called "Sabrina's Law" in Ontario.

You are absolutely right. For some reason I thought it was in BC, but now that you mention it, I remember. There was a group here in BC that tried to bring the law in.