I've lost all sympathy for street people

[troutman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I think with some of the back and forth going on in this thread some people are missing the point of the OP and the people backing them- let's find a way to help the one subset of homeless people that should be the easiest to help; the ones without mental issues or addictions. ie- the "lazy" homeless people; let's get them back into the work force. Even if they only make up 20% of the homeless population, now we can focus our resources on those who need it most. So instead of social services trying to help those who are able to help themselves, let them deal with those who need our help.

If you are an employer, do you really want to hire the "lazy" people? You would be sending them home before their first shift is over.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by troutman

If you are an employer, do you really want to hire the "lazy" people? You would be sending them home before their first shift is over.

Sadly sometimes anybody is better than nobody in low-level jobs.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by DESS

It's ill-informed opinions like this that are part of the problem IMO. There is plenty of cheap housing in Calgary. In a two second Google search I found rooms for rent for $375 - in Brentwood no less! I imagine Dover, Forest Lawn, etc. would have even cheaper places. Absolutely anybody (with the exception of severe mental cases) could make that in a week in Calgary. Housing is expensive? Untrue. Add to that some of the highest wages in the country and people who are not lazy should have no problem covering their basic shelter needs.

Plenty of cheap housing? Strongly disagree.

What little cheap housing there is is gone when the person makes that call. It's no different if one scans the classified or any other publication. By the time it makes print the place has already been rented. Problem is you have countless numbers of people competing for that rental unit.

If what you say is true then people wouldn't be complaining about the high cost of rent.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Although I think it's completely moronic to hate Hasek because I personally don't think you know enough about him to hate, there is a difference between hating someone you know quite a bit about than someone you know nothing about.

You can treat someone with hatred and disdain yet you give others advice on how they should handle their hatred?

This belongs in the irony thread....

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by DESS

Sadly sometimes anybody is better than nobody in low-level jobs.

We have learned the opposite where I work. Bad employee can cost you business and money.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

We have learned the opposite where I work. Bad employee can cost you business and money.

Depends on how low-level the job is. The position I need to fill is as basic as it gets. I'm sure you're right about a lot of jobs though.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

We have learned the opposite where I work. Bad employee can cost you business and money.

One of the biggest issues with casual labor is the minimum payment period. If you bring a person in and they suck and you send them home, you still have to pay them for 4 hours worth of work of which you received 10 minutes worth of actual labor. Companies are beginning to shy away from taking that chance because casual labor rates have already skyrocketed ahead of their break even barriers.

One of the most lucrative casual labor rolls is lumping trailers. You go in and unload a truck in an hour and you get paid for 4, if you can schedule things right you can work three hours and get paid for basically 12 hours.

One of the things that really frustrated me in the staffing business were the people that weren't working, we'd find them a decent paying laborers job at lets say 15.50 per hour, and they would refuse to work unless they got 17 or 18. their quote was "I don't get out of bed for less then 18", so we stopped calling them, and I'm sure other agencies did too.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Crazy Flamer

You can treat someone with hatred and disdain yet you give others advice on how they should handle their hatred?

This belongs in the irony thread....

How have I treated anyone with hatred and disdain? I don't hate anybody on this thread never said I did I said their opinions made them sound like asses and I'll stand by that, doesn't mean that I hate them.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

their quote was "I don't get out of bed for less then 18", so we stopped calling them, and I'm sure other agencies did too.

I have talked to unemployed people with their Masters who have no work experience that will say similar things.

[CaptainCrunch]

should read $18 not 18" which would get anyone a high paying job in the adult industry

[J pold]

So you are unable to retain employees and somehow it becomes “street peoples” fault?

Try being a little proactive instead of blaming people and making a lot of blanket statements maybe you should put more effort into hiring…making flyers, taking out ads in there paper, and internet

How do their life choices have any bearing on your life? Because every once and while you get asked for change? It’s YOUR fault that you can’t hire employees not their’s

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

should read $18 not 18" which would get anyone a high paying job in the adult industry

Not just anyone thank god.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Dion

Plenty of cheap housing? Strongly disagree.

What little cheap housing there is is gone when the person makes that call. It's no different if one scans the classified or any other publication. By the time it makes print the place has already been rented. Problem is you have countless numbers of people competing for that rental unit.

If what you say is true then people wouldn't be complaining about the high cost of rent.

While I definitely don't support hand outs, I would fully support more low-income housing, more government-sponsored educational opportunities and more assistance for those to find jobs that will put them under a shelter.

A free pass for being lazy though? Not a chance.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

While I definitely don't support hand outs, I would fully support more low-income housing, more government-sponsored educational opportunities and more assistance for those to find jobs that will put them under a shelter.

A free pass for being lazy though? Not a chance.

I agree. Teach the man to fish and you feed him for life. The problem with most charities is that they feed a man for a day, and they don't give them anything to really get them on their feet.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by troutman

If you are an employer, do you really want to hire the "lazy" people? You would be sending them home before their first shift is over.

Probably not with their lack of existing skills. We need programs to motivate them to not only get off the street but also to acquire job skills that will enable them to stay off the streets. Most of that requires a lot of effort by the actual individual.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Dion

I agree. Teach the man to fish and you feed him for life. The problem with most charities is that they feed a man for a day, and they don't give them anything to really get them on their feet.

And that is exactly what the 3 mayors from New York and 2 other big cities from USA were saying during the talk show I caught around 2 months ago.

Yes, we do have an onus to help these people but if all you do is just build more shelters, create more programs to deal with their needs, then you will just end up perpetuating the problem and it will keep escalating.

Programs are needed to give these people job skills and to upgrade their education. And programs are needed to build affordable housing - many on the streets are the working poor. They toil all day long and just can not put enough together to come up with the huge down payments on most rental properties these days. In fact, programs are needed to deal with that issue on its own. And the social programs that exist today have to modified to enable those on social assistance to get off assistance.

Eg: If you are on social assistance and you go back to school, then the amounts you will be eligible for are either cut off or decreased. Surely if people are showing the initiative to get off the streets and turn their lives around, we at least owe them continuing assistance during the times they are upgrading their schooling and job skills.

[redforever]

[quote=J pold;1165917]So you are unable to retain employees and somehow it becomes “street peoples” fault?

Try being a little proactive instead of blaming people and making a lot of blanket statements maybe you should put more effort into hiring…making flyers, taking out ads in there paper, and internet

How do their life choices have any bearing on your life? Because every once and while you get asked for change? It’s YOUR fault that you can’t hire employees not their’s [/quote]

No, not really. Alberta requires for the most part a highly trained work force and unfortunately, most on the streets do not meet the requirement of being highly trained.

[flamesfever]

In maintaining and increasing the availability of low income housing, I believe the city should keep the mobile home parks they already have, and consider allowing more. I believe this would allow cheaper housing and living expenses for those struggling to make ends meet.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by redforever

And that is exactly what the 3 mayors from New York and 2 other big cities from USA were saying during the talk show I caught around 2 months ago.

Yes, we do have an onus to help these people but if all you do is just build more shelters, create more programs to deal with their needs, then you will just end up perpetuating the problem and it will keep escalating.

Programs are needed to give these people job skills and to upgrade their education. And programs are needed to build affordable housing - many on the streets are the working poor. They toil all day long and just can not put enough together to come up with the huge down payments on most rental properties these days. In fact, programs are needed to deal with that issue on its own. And the social programs that exist today have to modified to enable those on social assistance to get off assistance.

Eg: If you are on social assistance and you go back to school, then the amounts you will be eligible for are either cut off or decreased. Surely if people are showing the initiative to get off the streets and turn their lives around, we at least owe them continuing assistance during the times they are upgrading their schooling and job skills.

I posted an article earlier on what they are doing in NY and how sucessful it is. So yes, I do agree with much of what you are saying. Keeping them fed and a place to sleep for the night doesn't help them get out of that vicious cycle they seem trapped in.

On the eveniong news i was suprised to hear that there are the homeless who refuse to sleep in shelters - even in this cold weather. I have to wonder if they are the ones that have refused help and prefer the lifestyle they are living.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

In maintaining and increasing the availability of low income housing, I believe the city should keep the mobile home parks they already have, and consider allowing more. I believe this would allow cheaper housing and living expenses for those struggling to make ends meet.

The probelm with that idea is that the NIMBY crowd will howl in protest if one placed their neighbourhood. In fact the city is now exploring the low income housing and ways to get around the NIMBY crowd.
------------------------

NIMBY poses hurdle for homeless fix: advocate

In a briefing document on the report obtained by the Herald, the committee outlines a housing-first model as a main part of the solution. It also calls for developing more than 11,000 new affordable housing units and reducing the number of emergency shelter beds by half within five years -- an idea Baldwin says should be approached with caution.

"If you wanted to take half the shelters out, look at the people that reside in them, tell me which apartments and which communities are going to put up the same people," he said.

"What we have been trying to do is exactly that for years, and we've been blocked. NIMBY has disallowed many things in this city."

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...3-03d21d0bfb3d