[PGT] Wild defeat Flames 2-0, Nov. 9th

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So do we keep Kadri, Coleman, and other vets and try to have better balance on the lines to mentor the young players?

It depends on the offer. If they can get really good value then I would say no. Collect high round future and sign good vets who can help them grow. If the offers are not great, keep them and have them mentor (assuming they want to stay after all the losing). The only thing the team owes to the fans is to be actively doing the work in the background and not promoting idea that "we want to be nice to the players because we are scared that players will not want to come to Calgary if we are not".

[ViKen]

Wonderful, please make this tank job full proof and don't screw it up.

[Sylvanfan]

If the goal is to tank, why would you change anything in the lineup. Not scoring any goals is surefire way to avoid wins.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Kadri, Coleman and Rasmus scoring here and there would be ideal.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by FBI

I HATE our system

The team desperately needs more cowbell.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I no longer assign full blame on young players struggling in Calgary.

Mega disappointing to see Zary having such an awful start, but there's something about this organization and how they coach that just doesn't give young players the stability to make an impact. If you look at Zary's best play here (and Pospisil's), it's when night in and night out they played with a mentor - much like Honzek is seeing the benefit of this year.

That stuff matters to player development.

Instead Zary is getting kicked all around the roster, and it's not like it's being done for players that are making a larger material impact either.

Is he a centre? Is he a 2nd line winger? Is he a 4th line centre? 3rd line winger?

The Flames are garbage for giving young players a stable environment to grow in.

What are the other examples of this besides Zary and Sam?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

It's very silly that the team can't determine what a player is or what they want to develop that player as, and bounce them around endlessly from center to wing, and top to bottom.

They especially seem to have a hard time with players who have been centers but they aren't sure can cut it at the NHL level. So they make them part time centers and part time wingers.

None of it seems to help the player progress. We saw this treatment with Bennett and now with Zary. Both players struggled to find traction.

Simply put, they're not good at NHL level development of young players. And their main strategy appears to be leaning on Backlund and Coleman (and Frolic before him) to do all the heavy work for them. But you can only put one player there at a time. And given that those two won't be around much longer, it's not a strategy that you can continue to rely upon. They need to figure out how to do it more effectively.

I think it comes down to deciding what position you see the player developing into, and giving him the stability to play there and work the bugs out. Sure, you can bump them down mid game if it's going poorly, but they need to come back up to that spot the next game. The problem is this overcorrection after a bad game, first line to fourth line to press box nonsense.

And really, who the #### can develop properly under that kind of inconsistency?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Again what are the other examples besides Zary and Sam?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Those two examples are more than enough. They're also bouncing Sharangovich around the same way.

[Jiri Hrdina]

So 2 examples over a 10 year period is enough to establish a pattern that this is an organizational issue?

[SuperMatt18]

TBH it's been most of the young players they drafted to be centers - excluding Monahan.

Bennett, Jankowski, Zary, Kerins, Dube, Ruzicka, Pospisil were all listed as centers when they were drafted.

They were all introduced to pro hockey as wingers in the AHL, and then all of them were bounced between winger and center when they did get NHL looks.

Now I'm not sure if that's a Flames exclusive thing - because lots of players drafted as centers get shifted to wing once they reach pro hockey.

But teams that are always looking to win now, tend to be less likely to give a player the leeway to develop and make mistakes as a Center at the NHL level and shift them to wing.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

So 2 examples over a 10 year period is enough to establish a pattern that this is an organizational issue?

We have only drafted 4 Cs with at least a season of NHL games since Monahan. Zary, Pospisil, Dube, and Bennett. All of them have had the same treatment.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Unless they're a bonafide top line talent or top 6 player with an nhl history at the position, they get beach ball treatment.

You can't develop new ones if they don't get extended time in the position.

Have to learn to walk before you can run. Expecting them to hit the ground running is unrealistic and it all goes back to clinging too tightly to the idea of competing now and getting in for a fluke run.

No team needs to surrender to the meat and potatoes process of a rebuild more than the Flames.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by kehatch

We have only drafted 4 Cs with at least a season of NHL games since Monahan. Zary, Pospisil, Dube, and Bennett. All of them have had the same treatment.

Monahan had maybe 10 games as a wing.

[Bonded]

I think Zary is still working through injury recovery either physically or mentally.

[NewFan]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

If the goal is to tank, why would you change anything in the lineup. Not scoring any goals is surefire way to avoid wins.

Rebuild is not only get high draft pick, it should be complex plan including scouting future and current players in the league, developing own future players upto their max potential, and decide their future by keeping them as part of team or trading for players or draft picks who can fulfill team's need.
Instead keeping veteran players who will suffer for no future with the team, trade them that they can play for something. It opens more spots for AHL guys to show their values for the team.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What are the other examples of this besides Zary and Sam?

Does there need to be more?

Most important draft pick in franchise history, and his time here was ruined by poor coaching hires.

I’m not condemning the organization, I’m just saying there are similarities between those two players inside this organization. I think coaching is massively important to player development - that’s all. I don’t like how the youth has been held to a certain standards that the veterans haven’t, and that tossing young players around the line-up doesn’t look to be an effective way to build the player.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

There needs to be at least, like, 6 examples for it to be a valid point tho.

What happened with Bennett and is happening with Zary is an exception to the rule for the Flames awesome and revered development and handling of young NHL players to reach their full potential.

It's pertinent that all top six players and top four d-men learn the essentials of what Ryan Huska would deem playing the right way in order to become everyday NHLers.

[Jiri Hrdina]

2 examples over a decade is pretty thin. Suggests one is looking for a pattern really hard.
I think they mishandled Sam. I don't know if that's the case with Zary. He hasn't looked the same since the first knee injury let alone the second.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

2 examples over a decade is pretty thin. Suggests one is looking for a pattern really hard.
I think they mishandled Sam. I don't know if that's the case with Zary. He hasn't looked the same since the first knee injury let alone the second.

He was doing great before the injuries. He is really struggling since the injuries.

Nothing about that sounds systemic to me.