[News] Waiver Wire Oct 2 - Prosvetov, Kerins clear. Avs claim Solovyov

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Huskas comments about 3 vets ahead of him annoyed me. Well ya there’s 3 centres already in the top nine and they aren’t going anywhere for years! And they see Kerins as a top nine centre. We I guess it’s like saying see ya! Hope someone claims you! I’m pretty sure he could centre a fourth line ( 3B line!) of talented players instead of plugs. Other than Coleman possibly is anyone on the supposed top three lines going anywhere in the next couple of years????

In less than a day we will know if anyone thinks he is top 9 centre material.

As he is right now? I don’t see it.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I guess one thing that continues to irk me about the team is their mystifying attachment to certain mediocre players who cannot be displaced for reasons.

Vegas gets a bad rap from the outside but they're cut throat about icing the best team they can, and no one is safe because of it. They'll make whatever moves they need to accommodate that.

Always earned, never given.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

What these decisions have shown me is the Flames were probably going with certain known entities over these kids no matter what.

Too bad those entities are the likes of Cooley, Miromanov and Bean, and not better players.

In the case of Kerins, it was going to take 6 games of playing lights out. High bar. Most good young players wouldn't have forced their hand either.

Losing near nhl ready centers in back to back camps isnt good for this organization.

Who says you cant have a skilled 4th line? The days of traditional energy lines have come and gone.

Schwindt's on waivers today too... so have they really lost any near NHL ready centers?

On the defencemen that they kept, one of Bean or Miromanov will stay up as the 7th defender. Most likely Bean, as he's a guy that can step in and probably have an okay game. It's really tough for a young defender who doesn't have a ton of NHL experience to sit for 5-10 games and then jump in and play against NHL talent. Young players either start in the top six and get their sheltered reps in or they get more seasoning. Unfortunately, with Andersson still in camp and Parekh needing a spot or going back to junior, there wasn't room in the top 6 for a young guy. One will get the call when Andersson is traded.

I don't disagree with your general point on Kerins. I think young guys like him should get an extended look in the NHL as he's worked hard to get here and he had mostly decent showing in preseason, minus the last game where they were all pretty hot garbage. But maybe it wasn't just the preseason games. Maybe he was a step behind in practice too?

[SuperMatt18]

Kirkland should have been waived before Kerins.

But the coach would rather have an older and low upside 4th line, instead of a younger and higher upside 4th line.

Typical Flames though, we've utilized the 4th line in a mediocre way for years now.

Cant have a 4th line that's actually good, lets have a 4th line that gets caved in like the combination of Lomberg, Rooney, Kirkland, etc regularly did last season.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I guess one thing that continues to irk me about the team is their mystifying attachment to certain mediocre players who cannot be displaced for reasons.

Vegas gets a bad rap from the outside but they're cut throat about icing the best team they can, and no one is safe because of it. They'll make whatever moves they need to accommodate that.

Always earned, never given.

Who are you talking about?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I guess one thing that continues to irk me about the team is their mystifying attachment to certain mediocre players who cannot be displaced for reasons.

Vegas gets a bad rap from the outside but they're cut throat about icing the best team they can, and no one is safe because of it. They'll make whatever moves they need to accommodate that.

Always earned, never given.

Including cutting/trading younger players. It isn't clear to me the Vegas types would have done anything different.

Kerins might be good. He might get claimed, but I personally doubt it.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I guess one thing that continues to irk me about the team is their mystifying attachment to certain mediocre players who cannot be displaced for reasons.

Vegas gets a bad rap from the outside but they're cut throat about icing the best team they can, and no one is safe because of it. They'll make whatever moves they need to accommodate that.

Always earned, never given.

You guys see what you want to see. The guys you think are favourites were claimed or brought in precisely to be replaced by kids. The bar was set low and these kid palookas couldn’t beat the old guys.

CC is a winner and wants this team to win. I guarantee you he is pissed off that guys he drafted or had a hand in selecting have not stolen jobs from replaceable guys like Bean.

You guys are nuts if you think CC wants Bean here. What he wants of for a kid to steal the job and give Calgary three solid pairings.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Kirkland should have been waived before Kerins.

But the coach would rather have an older and low upside 4th line, instead of a younger and higher upside 4th line.

Typical Flames though, we've utilized the 4th line in a mediocre way for years now.

Cant have a 4th line that's actually good, lets have a 4th line that gets caved in like the combination of Lomberg, Rooney, Kirkland, etc regularly did last season.

When have they decided to ice a 4th line with less upside? Why does Kerins in your estimation have more upside than say Kirkland? I don’t see it. People were screaming about Matthew Phillips not being given the opportunity, older guys getting preference, etc. how has that turned out? Phillips is barely an NHLer - and I suspect the same is/will be true of most of these fringe prospects that some fans fall in love with… it’s the mystery box syndrome. Prospects haven’t had the chance to disappoint you so they seem like better options than the roster players that have.

[Finger Cookin]

I don't know what's confusing people in the discussion about these cuts. Any bubble player we did keep is stillborn and just good enough to help us finish with a first round pick in the 12-16 range. Every player we waived is going to be claimed and will go on to be the next Brett Hull, Martin St. Louis, or Martin Brodeur for another better, wiser organization.

It's pretty straightforward.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Kirkland should have been waived before Kerins.

But the coach would rather have an older and low upside 4th line, instead of a younger and higher upside 4th line.

Typical Flames though, we've utilized the 4th line in a mediocre way for years now.

Cant have a 4th line that's actually good, lets have a 4th line that gets caved in like the combination of Lomberg, Rooney, Kirkland, etc regularly did last season.

Kerins is small, weak and skilled. Bad fit for the 4th line. Kirkland fits the role better.

Kerins is a top six player in the AHL but can’t/won’t do what he needs to do in order to play that role in the NHL. Huska and coaches have been telling him the same thing for three years. Go back and watch interviews from last year where Rory is brought up.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Kerins produced points with relative consistency in every stint he got to showcase himself.

Players who have a knack for producing don't necessarily blow you away visually but its a valuable asset to have, to have guys that factor into the scoresheet at the end of the night. You need that.

Normally I'd understand the numbers game angle, and its not to discredit that justification entirely, but the flames were 29th? In goals last season.

They can't afford to throw their point producers to the wind if they have aspirations to improve in that department.

My counter to Huska's remark would be
-He can't play wing? Everyone knew from day one he wasn't pushing 3 nhl vet centers out of a job
-Your fourth line can't function like a second 3rd line (especially when you're relying on your depth to challenge your opponents top end)?
-He can't be in a rotation with another top 9 player where you play the hot hand? Competiton is how you extract your players best efforts

[Badgers Nose]

Good points. We’ll know tomorrow if anyone else sees it.

And then we can wait and see what Kerins does elsewhere.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Kirkland should have been waived before Kerins.

But the coach would rather have an older and low upside 4th line, instead of a younger and higher upside 4th line.

Typical Flames though, we've utilized the 4th line in a mediocre way for years now.

Cant have a 4th line that's actually good, lets have a 4th line that gets caved in like the combination of Lomberg, Rooney, Kirkland, etc regularly did last season.

Truly curious if there's any team that actually ices a fourth line with higher upside and rolls their bottom two (or 2nd/3rd/4th) lines evenly?

You look at Florida and their fourth line is all hard nosed 10-30 point vets. Vegas has a bit more skill on their fourth, but they are absolutely stacked at forward. I can't see any other team that has a lot of potential with a quick scan.

I think the tricky thing about having a fourth line with young potential upside is that they'll have to go up against another team's gritty vets 75% of their limited minutes who will absolutely abuse the crap out of them. You kind of want to pair your young guys with experience, like the Flames typically do with Backlund/Coleman.

I don't think it's as simple as just creating a fourth line with upside.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Yeah we'll see. Fingers crossed he's been overlooked around the league the same way he has been here.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by VilleN

When have they decided to ice a 4th line with less upside? Why does Kerins in your estimation have more upside than say Kirkland? I don’t see it. People were screaming about Matthew Phillips not being given the opportunity, older guys getting preference, etc. how has that turned out? Phillips is barely an NHLer - and I suspect the same is/will be true of most of these fringe prospects that some fans fall in love with… it’s the mystery box syndrome. Prospects haven’t had the chance to disappoint you so they seem like better options than the roster players that have.

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Kerins is small, weak and skilled. Bad fit for the 4th line. Kirkland fits the role better.

Kerins is a top six player in the AHL but can’t/won’t do what he needs to do in order to play that role in the NHL. Huska and coaches have been telling him the same thing for three years. Go back and watch interviews from last year where Rory is brought up.

They utilize the 4th line in a certain way and did all last season too. They think it needs to be safe and full of veterans. That's why Rooney was a fixture all season last year.

I look at the roster and see two options for the 4th line:

Huberdeau - Kadri - Coronato
Farabee - Frost - Sharangovich
Zary - Backlund - Coleman

Pospisil - Kerins - Klapka
Lomberg

Or

Lomberg - Kirkland - Klapka/Pospisil

Personally I'd much rather the first option. Kirkland can be in the AHL to start to get his legs back post injury, and Lomberg can be 13th forward (he had a 44.7% xGF last year and doesn't need to be an everyday player)

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Truly curious if there's any team that actually ices a fourth line with higher upside and rolls their bottom two (or 2nd/3rd/4th) lines evenly?

You look at Florida and their fourth line is all hard nosed 10-30 point vets. Vegas has a bit more skill on their fourth, but they are absolutely stacked at forward. I can't see any other team that has a lot of potential with a quick scan.

I think the tricky thing about having a fourth line with young potential upside is that they'll have to go up against another team's gritty vets 75% of their limited minutes who will absolutely abuse the crap out of them. You kind of want to pair your young guys with experience, like the Flames typically do with Backlund/Coleman.

I don't think it's as simple as just creating a fourth line with upside.

I feel like Carolina has in the past and rolls out a younger 4th line, St Louis did in the past too.

It's possible, you just need to tell them to go play and do get stuck in the trenches trying to out grind the other team.

Mangiapane - Ryan - Hathaway is the best 4th line the Flames had in the past 15 years and it was two young guys with a veteran and they didn't get abused by other teams 4th lines at all.

I don't think Pospisil - Kerins - Klapka would either

[D as in David]

Gridin is the last waiver exempt player other than Parekh, remaining on the roster, correct? That can give them the option of picking up some other team's waived player on the final day of cut-downs if they are a player really like.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Gridin is the last waiver exempt player other than Parekh, remaining on the roster, correct?

That can give them the option of picking up some other team's waived player on the final day of cut-downs if they are a player really like.

I can't see the Flames have any interest in a claim

They already have a log jam at winger and defense,

Only exception is at center

Very unlikely in my opinion they will make a waiver claim

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Yeah we'll see. Fingers crossed he's been overlooked around the league the same way he has been here.

The entire league seeing in him what the Flames see wouldn't be enough to convince you you're wrong? Interesting.

[ICRed]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The whole “everyone is obtuse, can’t read, needs to relax” schtick is pretty boring. I don’t think you need to lash out because you’re receiving pushback on your opinion.

I’m not sure any of Kuz, Solo, or Brz looked much better than anyone. And, at best even by your measure, they maybe looked good enough to be on the bottom pairing. So what then? Having two rookies on the bottom pairing isn’t great. Having another two rookies sitting in the stands isn’t great either.

Who is having Kuz and Parekh as a pairing and then Solo and Brz sitting in the box good for? Who benefits? Bean, Pachal, Miro, these are all guys that can play or not, move up or down, it doesn’t matter.

And as far as the vet games go, what else would you expect? What do you think is going to happen next year when it gets reduced to 4 games?

Vets and rookies approach preseason differently. Maybe it doesn’t meet your fantasy of what competition looks like, but coaches know what they’re getting from vets, so when rookies are in the process of getting cut, it’s because they’re not above the level of the vet whose place they’re trying to take. You still have to earn a spot in the NHL.

What “we all said” doesn’t matter, because for one, we didn’t all say it, and second, if you followed popular sentiment through training camp you’d have evaluations of the same guys swinging wildly from game to game. They had seven vets on D that needed to prove they were top five given the likelihood of Parekh making it, and they didn’t all do that. The rookies also needed to prove they were among the top 6, and only Parekh did.

I don’t think you can say there’s no meritocracy when the guys who earned it are still here and the guys who haven’t, aren’t. Kerins didn’t earn a spot in the top six, and he didn’t show he could play 4th line. Sucks, but if you aren’t one of the 9 best players and can’t play on the 4th line, then you didn’t earn anything. Same goes for D.

They’re not keeping rookies up to sit and watch the game.

Agree to disagree. We’re good.

I do agree that “what we all said” is a terrible way of putting it. It was definitely a narrative for some heading into camp and maybe a hope for myself.

I felt strongly that some younger players on the back end, who have either been sent down already or are being waived today, are capable of contributing more to the roster today than those we have kept up. I felt their play in preseason backed that up.

I know that vets don’t try as hard in preseason. It’s pretty widely known that they mail it in sometimes. Some vets have earned that right. Makar doesn’t need to go full throttle on a Tuesday night preseason game if he doesn’t want to. He just needs to get himself ready however he wants. For most though, I don’t think it’s an acceptable attitude or practice. Call it a fantasy. If our players are complacent with their positioning in the org then that to me says we need new players.

[iggyloob12]

Isn’t Miro hurt? Can you waive an injured player?