Agree with your post and that it’s difficult to compare eras, so we’ll never truly know who’d actually come out on top if they played at the same time, but I disagree with the bolded.
Not to take anything away from Gretzky’s accomplishments, but if anything it’s the exact opposite that his goal total would be higher if he played in today’s era. Gretzky’s era obviously had its own individual challenges that, in some ways made it more difficult than today’s era, but he also greatly benefited from a less talented crop of goalies and defensemen for the first probably decade of his NHL career compared to today’s players which significantly helped out his scoring totals.
I think he’d be way more in tough to score 894 if he played today and the era-adjusted goal scoring list supports that. Adjusted for era, Gretzky would come out with just 758 career goals, putting him in 4th all time behind Howe and Jagr. Ovi’s 872 would bump up to 993 after adjusting for era.
Either way, pretty incredible what we’re watching go down
The 80's was not the greatest talent by any stretch but the game was open. The 90's was really shut down, clutch and grab.
I just look at the improvements in a lot of areas and apply them to the top players in a direct comparison.
Travel, training, nutrition, team assistance, medical and rehab treatment are all substantially better.
#99 played in an era where ice was not really cleaned between stoppages in play like now. There was a redline ,a 2 line pass rule and no 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 OT for some, most or all of his career.
It would be logical that the #1 goal scorer,#1passer in the game would probably absolutely have a field day with those rules. The difference in Powerplay goals between #99 and Ovi is shocking due how the game and penalties were called in the 80's and 90's. I think at last count Wayne had 20 or 21% of his total goals as a PP goal. Ovi is near 40% I believe. Both players have played similar game totals and scored similar goals.
Ovi is a very high volume shooter given his opportunities with the way the game is now. Apply the same shot total with Gretz shooting percentage and the numbers are eye popping.
If #99 never scored as single goal ever, he would still be the highest scoring player in history. There is a 50% gap in points between him and #2 Jagr who played until 47.
There is smaller gap between #2 and#100 players. This level of dominance cant be comprehended in sports cause it doesnt really exist. If applied in business, it would be like Apple, Coca- Cola or Mcdonalds never selling a single phone, soft drink or burger and still having higher sales than their biggest competitor. The question becomes, how much other product are you selling that your still #1??
I am still stunned Ovi will probably finish his journey and good on him. Its unreal and frankly wild to think. I think Ovi was helped more long term structural changes to the game than perhaps Wayne was over Howe. Then again who knows? Wayne got paid well while Howes signing bonus was a leather jacket from Detroit.
Everybody thought Wayne was concussed when he said a 14 year old Crosby would break his records when he saw him play. Crosby could very well be the only other player to 2000 points.
No matter who it is, the best always know and see the best better than us.
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The 80's was not the greatest talent by any stretch but the game was open. The 90's was really shut down, clutch and grab.
I just look at the improvements in a lot of areas and apply them to the top players in a direct comparison.
Travel, training, nutrition, team assistance, medical and rehab treatment are all substantially better.
#99 played in an era where ice was not really cleaned between stoppages in play like now. There was a redline ,a 2 line pass rule and no 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 OT for some, most or all of his career.
It would be logical that the #1 goal scorer,#1passer in the game would probably absolutely have a field day with those rules. The difference in Powerplay goals between #99 and Ovi is shocking due how the game and penalties were called in the 80's and 90's. I think at last count Wayne had 20 or 21% of his total goals as a PP goal. Ovi is near 40% I believe. Both players have played similar game totals and scored similar goals.
Ovi is a very high volume shooter given his opportunities with the way the game is now. Apply the same shot total with Gretz shooting percentage and the numbers are eye popping.
If #99 never scored as single goal ever, he would still be the highest scoring player in history. There is a 50% gap in points between him and #2 Jagr who played until 47.
There is smaller gap between #2 and#100 players. This level of dominance cant be comprehended in sports cause it doesnt really exist. If applied in business, it would be like Apple, Coca- Cola or Mcdonalds never selling a single phone, soft drink or burger and still having higher sales than their biggest competitor. The question becomes, how much other product are you selling that your still #1??
I am still stunned Ovi will probably finish his journey and good on him. Its unreal and frankly wild to think. I think Ovi was helped more long term structural changes to the game than perhaps Wayne was over Howe. Then again who knows? Wayne got paid well while Howes signing bonus was a leather jacket from Detroit.
Everybody thought Wayne was concussed when he said a 14 year old Crosby would break his records when he saw him play. Crosby could very well be the only other player to 2000 points.
No matter who it is, the best always know and see the best better than us.
0% chance that happens IMO.
He will be 38 when next season begins (same age Gretzky retired iirc) and would essentially need 4 more 80 point campaigns after this one too get to 2000.
Just a bit too much to ask with all he has been through. I can see him getting to the 5th all time spot though.
The 80's was not the greatest talent by any stretch but the game was open. The 90's was really shut down, clutch and grab.
I just look at the improvements in a lot of areas and apply them to the top players in a direct comparison.
Travel, training, nutrition, team assistance, medical and rehab treatment are all substantially better.
#99 played in an era where ice was not really cleaned between stoppages in play like now. There was a redline ,a 2 line pass rule and no 4 on 4 or 3 on 3 OT for some, most or all of his career.
It would be logical that the #1 goal scorer,#1passer in the game would probably absolutely have a field day with those rules. The difference in Powerplay goals between #99 and Ovi is shocking due how the game and penalties were called in the 80's and 90's. I think at last count Wayne had 20 or 21% of his total goals as a PP goal. Ovi is near 40% I believe. Both players have played similar game totals and scored similar goals.
Ovi is a very high volume shooter given his opportunities with the way the game is now. Apply the same shot total with Gretz shooting percentage and the numbers are eye popping.
If #99 never scored as single goal ever, he would still be the highest scoring player in history. There is a 50% gap in points between him and #2 Jagr who played until 47.
There is smaller gap between #2 and#100 players. This level of dominance cant be comprehended in sports cause it doesnt really exist. If applied in business, it would be like Apple, Coca- Cola or Mcdonalds never selling a single phone, soft drink or burger and still having higher sales than their biggest competitor. The question becomes, how much other product are you selling that your still #1??
I am still stunned Ovi will probably finish his journey and good on him. Its unreal and frankly wild to think. I think Ovi was helped more long term structural changes to the game than perhaps Wayne was over Howe. Then again who knows? Wayne got paid well while Howes signing bonus was a leather jacket from Detroit.
Everybody thought Wayne was concussed when he said a 14 year old Crosby would break his records when he saw him play. Crosby could very well be the only other player to 2000 points.
No matter who it is, the best always know and see the best better than us.
That's a very good point regarding the 4-on-4/3-on-3 OT but also, 4-on-4 situations when there are coincidental minors. Gretzky forced the NHL to change it to 5-on-5 for most of his career due to his proficiency scoring there.
Also, when you look at the numbers, sometime around year six (85-86) Gretzky seemed to just get bored of scoring goals and tried more for assists. He then had two seasons in a row where his assist total was more than anyone had points. In 86-87, he had 121 assists and 183 points. Number two in the NHL was Jari Kurri (his linemate) who had 108 points. It's kind of hard to wrap your head around.
Also, from 1979-80 through 1991-92, his shooting percentage was 19.9%. He took 3,758 shots and 749 goals.
In Ovechkin's first 13 seasons, he had 4,896 shots and 607 goals. (12.4%)
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That's a very good point regarding the 4-on-4/3-on-3 OT but also, 4-on-4 situations when there are coincidental minors. Gretzky forced the NHL to change it to 5-on-5 for most of his career due to his proficiency scoring there.
Also, when you look at the numbers, sometime around year six (85-86) Gretzky seemed to just get bored of scoring goals and tried more for assists. He then had two seasons in a row where his assist total was more than anyone had points. In 86-87, he had 121 assists and 183 points. Number two in the NHL was Jari Kurri (his linemate) who had 108 points. It's kind of hard to wrap your head around.
Yeah he is/was so far ahead of the rest of the world, its hard to fathom.
The gap between #1 and #2 all time points wise...is 936 points.
The gap between #2 and #100 all time points wise...is 930 points.
Its absurd really.
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The only thing in all that convo about how Gretzky would be equally if not more productive in today's NHL vs his era? Just the redline rule.
Gretzky with the ability to stretch pass or cherry pick?
Forget about it.
I don't much era comparisons but there's like 5 or 6 athletes that would succeed in any era and Gretz is one of them. Lemieux too in the hockey spehere.
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^Yup, Even if Ovi beats his goal record, just the fact that Gretzky has 4x 200 point seasons (including the record of 215) and nobody else has hit 200 makes him the GOAT.
Yeah, the scoring record is attainable. But I don't ever see a 200pt season for a single player ever again.
I think it’s a state of the league issue more than a talent issue. The quality of hockey was a joke when Wayne was running up the score compared to today.
I think it’s a state of the league issue more than a talent issue. The quality of hockey was a joke when Wayne was running up the score compared to today.
And yet no one else was able to do what he did.
It is impossible to compare eras, there are things for and against each side. Instead, I think the thing to look at is how far ahead of their contemporaries they were. And no one has dominated their era like he did.
It is impossible to compare eras, there are things for and against each side. Instead, I think the thing to look at is how far ahead of their contemporaries they were. And no one has dominated their era like he did.
Probably a little easier to create separation when the next best players are working part-time jobs, and Ovechkin is playing with elite athletes.
Scoring 92 and 200 points is very impressive, but if Gretzky was shooting those muffins on today's goalies no way he scores 92.
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