[PGT] Flames lose 4-3 to Blackhawks

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Flames are 6-4-0 in their last ten games with the league's 4th best goaltending in that time period.

Flames goaltenders have prevented 8.5 more goals than expected in the ten games.

They have the 13th worst (19th best) xGA in that time period.

Not disagreeing with you, really ... Markstrom has been the difference but the team is pretty leaky defensively, which I'm sure Zadorov's departure has affected.

My thing is Zadorov this season was extremely leaky and I have said as much since the classic long before the trade request

He was trying to do too much (contract year)

His agent says he was the teams BEST dman...their record got better when he left. It is what it is. Outside of last night the schedule has been pretty brutal since he left too.

the remaining UFAs leaving will effect the Flames way more

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

"We wish we could keep every one if there weren't cap constraints"

Is pretty damning, though. When your front office is falling in love with mediocrity (which is what this group has brought over half a season) and admits as much, that should set off alarms.

No wonder this team has been middling for decades. It can't even see the problem.

You believe that though?

After everything they've done and said this season, you're just going to eat up every bite of what Maloney said between periods?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dino7c

My thing is Zadorov this season was extremely leaky and I have said as much since the classic long before the trade request

He was trying to do too much (contract year)

His agent says he was the teams BEST dman...their record got better when he left. It is what it is. Outside of last night the schedule has been pretty brutal since he left too.

the remaining UFAs leaving will effect the Flames way more

I guess I just don't understand why you hang your hat on something so clearly simple.

Teams aren't better when they move a better player out for an inferior one.

Zadorov is better than any of the other options, and Zadorov with Gilbert was better than any third pairing we see today.

So the record may be better, but it would likely be even better with Zadorov with how well Markstrom is playing.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I guess I just don't understand why you hang your hat on something so clearly simple.

Teams aren't better when they move a better player out for an inferior one.

Zadorov is better than any of the other options, and Zadorov with Gilbert was better than any third pairing we see today.

So the record may be better, but it would likely be even better with Zadorov with how well Markstrom is playing.

Frankly this is the main explanation for the mini-run they were on.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I can't help myself.

Your take is just so strange I feel compelled to respond to it!

its not really that strange

"they will miss Zadorov so much"

I disagreed at the time and I still do as they haven't. Maybe they miss the depth with Gilbert out.

Zadorov was even at best, he was costing the team as much as he was providing. I feel Gilbert filled his role fine.

I love the big hits but the guy is ridiculously over rated IMO

When he was in Chicago nobody even cared about this player, including the Hawks he was just a depth dman

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dino7c

its not really that strange

"they will miss Zadorov so much"

I disagreed at the time and I still do

Zadorov was even at best, he was costing the team as much as he was providing. I feel Gilbert filled his role fine.

Are there any ex players you do like?

Or are they all just trash the second they leave?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

well, the record is better since he left

You keep saying this and it's not even correct.

21 games with Zadorov in the lineup, Flames on a 82 point pace
19 games without him in the lineup, Flames on a 78 point pace.

Since you believe these numbers and samples sizes are meaningful (I don't), Zadorov is worth 4 points in the standings over a season compared to replacement level. That seems like a lot.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Are there any ex players you do like?

Or are they all just trash the second they leave?

Giordano
Brodie
Monahan

Just not the ones that bail on the team

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You keep saying this and it's not even correct.

21 games with Zadorov in the lineup, Flames on a 82 point pace
19 games without him in the lineup, Flames on a 78 point pace.

Since you believe these numbers and samples sizes are meaningful (I don't), Zadorov is worth 4 points in the standings over a season compared to replacement level. That seems like a lot.

They were 1 game under .500 when he left no?

maybe the weekend games changed things but they 100% had a better record last week and the record didn't count at that point according to you guys.

you will not find any realistic stats that say Zadorov is worth 4 points over replacement. Coleman is the top Flame skater at just over 2

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

(and it's not 7%, they lost 7% in the Philly loss ... they're at 17% now)

Thanks for correcting, I didn't mean to misquote you.

[taxbuster]

Baloney from Maloney. He's just covering up for his boss who decided to hire a guy he couldn't keep, then pay him to leave, then screw the team for the next two year trying to hang on to fans in the seats by cheaping out on management and coaching.


This team is a disaster. And so is the owner.


Billboard time? Collection from CP to send a message?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They were 1 game under .500 when he left no?

Simply look at games with him in the lineup and without. He missed one of the games (a loss against Dallas).

https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...1/gamelog/2024

But it's a meaningless sample size and statistic, you're the only one that is harping on it. Just suggesting you use the correct numbers.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

They were 1 game under .500 when he left no?

maybe the weekend games changed things but they 100% had a better record last week and the record didn't count at that point according to you guys.

you will not find any realistic stats that say Zadorov is worth 4 points over replacement. Coleman is the top Flame skater at just over 2

LOL it's your argument and your statistic. Now it's "you guys" and suggesting it's not a "realistic stat" when someone points out your data is flat wrong.

Of course the 4 points over replacement is ridiculous, it simply highlights the absurdity of your take.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Simply look at games with him in the lineup and without. He missed one of the games (a loss against Dallas).

https://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...1/gamelog/2024

But it's a meaningless sample size and statistic, you're the only one that is harping on it. Just suggesting you use the correct numbers.

I mean you dug in pretty deep, finding a game he didn't play but was on the team

point remains it hasn't been some massive loss "teams best dman" according to his agent

my only argument has been its not some massive hole, they are more or less the same team since he left...Gilbert was filling in fine

December was by far their hardest stretch of schedule this season too

[Strange Brew]

Who cares what Maloney says to the media.

I think the report from Friedman that they are again negotiating with Hanifin has spurred some of these takes. Especially since it was reported that $60 million over 8 years wasn't enough for him.

Makes for an interesting new few weeks.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You believe that though?

After everything they've done and said this season, you're just going to eat up every bite of what Maloney said between periods?

Not necessarily, but why pretend in front of the cameras? Who are we pandering to?

Are they doing the "nothing to see here" meme to the casual audience in a pitiful attempt to keep from driving them away?

Even the casuals can see you're losing to a #### team.

The whole "sell playoff hope until we trade our guys, then keep selling playoff hope" approach is rather pathetic. There's an air of desperation to it and it also makes the team come off delusional and sets them up to be a laughing stock with fans and behind closed doors.

I'm no fan of the Rangers, but when they put out that open letter to the fanbase to announce their intention to rebuild, they had my respect for making that move. Shows intellectual honesty and a willingness to admit where they were and that they weren't going to settle but accept the pain of the moves necessary to improve long term. But most of all, that they weren't going to BS their fans into false delusions.

I wish the Flames had the stones to do the same. Instead, they're going about it the prolonged, cowardly way, which is rightfully opening them up to criticism.

They could save face with these losses if they'd formally announced a rebuild. Whose going to #### on a team that's labeled themselves as rebuilding? No one.

But since the Flames are so called "playoff hopefuls!" according to their own brass, they're going to get #### on for losses like this to an AHL squad.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I mean you dug in pretty deep, finding a game he didn't play but was on the team

point remains it hasn't been some massive loss "teams best dman" according to his agent

I didn't dig that deep. 10 second search on Hockey reference.

"Point remains" is a term used when the your argument doesn't change. You went from team is better without him to not being some massive loss.

That's a very different point.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I didn't dig that deep. 10 second search on Hockey reference.

"Point remains" is a term used when the your argument doesn't change. You went from team is better without him to not being some massive loss.

That's a very different point.

so if they win the next 2 games I am right?

I never said better team, I said better record

I think outside of this past weekend most fans would agree the Flames have played better hockey in the last month or so against tough competition

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Not necessarily, but why pretend in front of the cameras? Who are we pandering to?

Are they doing the "nothing to see here" meme to the casual audience in a pitiful attempt to keep from driving them away?

Even the casuals can see you're losing to a #### team.

The whole "sell playoff hope until we trade our guys, then keep selling playoff hope" approach is rather pathetic. There's an air of desperation to it and it also makes the team come off delusional and sets them up to be a laughing stock with fans and behind closed doors.

I'm no fan of the Rangers, but when they put out that open letter to the fanbase to announce their intention to rebuild, they had my respect for making that move. Shows intellectual honesty and a willingness to admit where they were and that they weren't going to settle but accept the pain of the moves necessary to improve long term. But most of all, that they weren't going to BS their fans into false delusions.

I wish the Flames had the stones to do the same. Instead, they're going about it the prolonged, cowardly way, which is rightfully opening them up to criticism.

They could save face with these losses if they'd formally announced a rebuild. Whose going to #### on a team that's labeled themselves as rebuilding? No one.

But since the Flames are so called "playoff hopefuls!" according to their own brass, they're going to get #### on for losses like this to an AHL squad.

I mean this is a little easier to do for the Rangers

Free norris trophy dman that the Flames drafted was incoming, top market, ect. ect.

they also weren't losing at the time of the interview

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by dino7c

its not really that strange
Zadorov...

When he was in Chicago nobody even cared about this player, including the Hawks he was just a depth dman

We were waiting for the undisciplined PIMs from him. He was a bottom pair guy on a very weak defensive group.