[PGT] Dec 11, 2023 - Flames lose: Avs 6 - Flames 5

[Ashes]

Watching the superstars on Colorado turn it on in the 3rd period doesn't even make me frustrated anymore. It's clearly going to be one of those seasons, we don't have the game breakers to hang with teams like that in a playoff series and that's ok. A 6-5 regulation loss is the kind of result we need this season if we're going to give ourselves a chance at a top pick.

Just hoping that Tanev is ok, and I think it's ridiculous that only Hanifin picks up a penalty on the play but ah well. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Tanev needs to be traded sooner than later. The guy plays the game with a ton of courage and heart and inevitably that just leads to injuries. It's also clear that once we trade Tanev, the losses will begin to pile up which is good for the future of the franchise.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I still watch games when I can but last night was interesting.
My daughter and I decided to go play games at Rec Room, and I basically missed the entire game. Wasn't paying attention on my phone or anything.

When we got in the car I got the final score and my immediate reaction was a positive one.

Which is telling.

Not saying I'm cheering for them to lose, but I firmly believe a bad season is what this team needs. As bad as possible. But my "in the moment" reaction to seeing that score, was telling to me about how I'm thinking about this season.

I agree with you. A reset year would be good - get some extra picks and see where it goes. I hope the ownership isn't too cheap to not retain on salary.

I do worry about the team bouncing out of it if they trade both Hanifan and Tanev. That would be an ugly defense crew with Andersson and Weegar and ? marks.

You also probably want to suck next year as well (and hope Florida is good) and pick in the top 10 so Montreal gets Florida's 1st round pick and we can keep our own pick. (another brilliant trade there)

[Strange Brew]

I agree with the Kadri comments that he has been playing quite well. There are still parts of his game I don't really like but I guess you take the good with the bad.

As for his pouting and quitting on the team last year, they replaced the coach so I guess he was vindicated in the end. I'll definitely be watching closely to see if that happens again.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I never thought the David Clarkson contract could be outdone, but Huberdeau’s might honest to God be even worse.

No. This is absurd. The only thing similar between these two is that after signing their big contracts they haven't played well enough to merit the contract. Clarkson never earned the right to be offered that huge contract and proved that he wasn't worth it. Huberdeau showed he could be worth it and hasn't backed it up yet. He might but as time goes on I'm certain it won't be in Calgary.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

People were all over me for complaining at the beginning of the year, so I took their advice and have barely watched any games this season. It's strange, I wake up at total peace with myself.

Sell everything. Sell it before it can get injured and prevent the selling. *


*Everything not including Zary. Zary must be protected.

The problem is that the market has been atrocious. No competing teams have cap. I do think the club has made genuine attempts to sell off assets, but they keep getting hit with not so great returns.

This team is clearly trying to lose, or at least retool. They are selling off assets. Zadorov and Toffoli were just the start. As far as tanking teams go, the Flames are actually providing solid product. I'm actually finding many games quite entertaining. Even last night had a great period of hockey. A lot of posters have been calling for a rebuild, and now are complaining when we have one.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I still watch games when I can but last night was interesting.
My daughter and I decided to go play games at Rec Room, and I basically missed the entire game. Wasn't paying attention on my phone or anything.

When we got in the car I got the final score and my immediate reaction was a positive one.

Which is telling.

Not saying I'm cheering for them to lose, but I firmly believe a bad season is what this team needs. As bad as possible. But my "in the moment" reaction to seeing that score, was telling to me about how I'm thinking about this season.

This is the only rational reaction for a fan of this team who cares about their long term trajectory. I would guess most people are feeling exactly the same way this season.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Pretty fun game to watch all things considered. Thought that the Flames were going to win it heading into the third, but the Avs - even with their injuries - are just too strong of a team with too many players that can break a game apart.


Good test for Gilbert tonight playing elevated minutes, as he will be playing more once Tanev (hope he is fine) and Hanifin are traded. Solovyov again started the game making mistakes, and then turns things around. He is young and inexperienced, but I put him on a really nice trajectory right now to end up as a top 4 defencemen sooner rather than later - just not soon enough to fill that spot in the next year or two.


Will be interesting how they match-up against Vegas tonight. Last time they met, Vegas was having a tough stretch with an inability to score goals. They scored 17 goals in their last 3 games, so this could be interesting.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's really no point in buying him out as that won't make the Flames better having to find a replacement for his roster spot while dealing with the massive dead cap hit. The Flames just have to hope that this is a Jeff Skinner type of situation where his game goes away for a couple of seasons and then comes back. Also since he's going to be around for a while there will be time to try and find him a center or winger that he has chemistry with. As painful as this situation is, there's really no quick fix or way out and it's just a matter of taking it year by year. As bad as things look I have to think that he's going to have some better years in the future.

Yeah, and if they are truly rebuilding, his cap hit isn't an issue while they go about it. When they are closer, that's the time to consider retention or buyout (which is hard anyway given the structure). And maybe he bounces back like you say - I think he's better this year as far as line effectiveness goes.

By all accounts he's not a pouter or a bad guy in the room, kids like Pelletier like him, he doesn't shy out of scrums for teammates, he's not a defensive liability (surprisingly good actually), so aside from not producing enough, he's not hurting - just not helping enough.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Ashes

Just hoping that Tanev is ok, and I think it's ridiculous that only Hanifin picks up a penalty on the play but ah well.

The cameras didn't seem to catch all of the post-hit action but the worst I saw Hanifin doing was putting Colton in a headlock. Given that they let the hit go, the refs could have easily let Hanifin's "roughing" go, as well.

[D as in David]

The Flames have seemingly been pretty good 4-on-4 this season - maybe they should take a penalty immediately upon getting a powerplay and see how that goes.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

Lindholm was never a ppg center. He's a 65 point two way center. What's costing him is timing. He had his best chance at a big contract during a year when the cap was flat and no one had the cash to give him the contract he wanted. He's also returning 29. He's not getting that 9 million x 8 year contract, and he never actually deserved it.

There is an argument to be made along these lines all right. It'd be interesting to watch isolated video of him in his high point years and see if he's actually doing different things or if different things are going on around him.

He did finish a lot of nice passes from Gaudreau or Tkachuk, and he did provide a defensive presence that none of Gaudreau/Monahan/Tkachuk had. And he was probably the fastest skater on the line at any time (JG was quick and elusive but not fast). But he can't carry play and even now his bigger nights are when his linemates do well.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, and if they are truly rebuilding, his cap hit isn't an issue while they go about it. When they are closer, that's the time to consider retention or buyout (which is hard anyway given the structure). And maybe he bounces back like you say - I think he's better this year as far as line effectiveness goes.

By all accounts he's not a pouter or a bad guy in the room, kids like Pelletier like him, he doesn't shy out of scrums for teammates, he's not a defensive liability (surprisingly good actually), so aside from not producing enough, he's not hurting - just not helping enough.

He's a team leading -13. I'm not sure how that doesn't equate to not being a defensive liability. +/- doesn't tell the whole story but that's not a stat you want to lead in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

He's a team leading -13. I'm not sure how that doesn't equate to not being a defensive liability. +/- doesn't tell the whole story but that's not a stat you want to lead in.

He's on the primary defensive line for one thing. But he seems to have pretty bad luck as well. He got a couple minuses from Coleman flubs the other night against NJ - he had nothing to do with the plays going sideways. He got another that same game on a line change.

But most of his minuses were before he went to the Backlund line. He hasn't really had a string of minuses since the big losing streak. Watch him now - he's made some very nice defensive plays. Broke up both Makar and Mackinnon a few times last night.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Calling him a career middle 6 guy is laughable.

Sure, not middle 6 but definitely a very over rated top line player despite the 115 points, that is not debatable based on his 1.5 season here. I don't know what it is, having that career year while picking up cheap stats on the PP? while Barkov took on all the heavier matchups and also the tougher matchups?

Many said it was coaching ( Sutter) last year and he would be back, but hes even worse.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Sure, not middle 6 but definitely a very over rated top line player despite the 115 points, that is not debatable based on his 1.5 season here. I don't know what it is, having that career year while picking up cheap stats on the PP? while Barkov took on all the heavier matchups and also the tougher matchups?

Many said it was coaching ( Sutter) last year and he would be back, but hes even worse.

Wasn't PP. He was 6th in ESPs that year, with 72.

[D as in David]

If a middle sixer can get 115 pts I don't understand why everyone focuses so much on getting a very early pick. You can draft players to fill your middle six later in the draft.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Sure, not middle 6 but definitely a very over rated top line player despite the 115 points, that is not debatable based on his 1.5 season here. I don't know what it is, having that career year while picking up cheap stats on the PP? while Barkov took on all the heavier matchups and also the tougher matchups?

Many said it was coaching ( Sutter) last year and he would be back, but hes even worse.

From 2019-2022 he was 11th in Even Strength point in the NHL with 121, one behind Tkachuk at 122, and 8 behind Gaudreau who had 129. Barkov was 25th with 105 points.

Once again he has been terrible for the Flames, but no reason to start all this revisionist history that somehow he was a terrible player for the Panthers.

He was a top 10 winger in the league for the Panthers and was an elite point producer at 5v5, on the PP, and at 3v3.

From 2019-2022

- 5V5: 121 (11th)
- PP: 91 (3rd)
- 3V3: 13 (1st)

It's crazy how none of that has worked in Calgary. Not the 5v5, not the PP, and not 3v3 in overtime.

Most likely thing is that the aging curve hit him and it hit him hard. He doesn't have the skating or agility to be an elite NHLer anymore and that has changed from his last season in Florida. He's a poor skater now and because of that can't create any time or space for himself to make a play.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Most likely thing is that the aging curve hit him and it hit him hard. He doesn't have the skating or agility to be an elite NHLer anymore and that has changed from his last season in Florida. He's a poor skater now and because of that can't create any time or space for himself to make a play.

But even that doesn't really track for me with how hard he fell off. It isn't like he relied on blazing speed or a super physical game in Florida. In theory his play style should have aged well. It looks like his decision making itself is slow.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Most likely thing is that the aging curve hit him and it hit him hard. He doesn't have the skating or agility to be an elite NHLer anymore and that has changed from his last season in Florida. He's a poor skater now and because of that can't create any time or space for himself to make a play.

How? He's 30, not 40. Guys don't drop off a cliff physically, at least that drastically at 30. If he could skate 2 years ago he's not going to be unable to now.
The likely truth is, he was never that good. There was a system, or structure in Florida that somehow allowed him to flourish while other teams had to deal with the real threat of Barkov and other players. Huberdeau collected points in a perfectly catered situation for him. Suddenly when you make him a franchise player, he's not up to the task. He has likely never been a number one franchise player or the type of player that opposing teams had to prepare for. the Flames got duped into making him one, to catastrophic results.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Igottago

How? He's 30, not 40. Guys don't drop off a cliff physically, at least that drastically at 30. If he could skate 2 years ago he's not going to be unable to now.
The likely truth is, he was never that good. There was a system, or structure in Florida that somehow allowed him to flourish while other teams had to deal with the real threat of Barkov and other players. Huberdeau collected points in a perfectly catered situation for him. Suddenly when you make him a franchise player, he's not up to the task. He has likely never been a number one franchise player or the type of player that opposing teams had to prepare for. the Flames got duped into making him one, to catastrophic results.

I think you’re right in saying that he probably was never as good as Treliving thought he was. IIRC, around the time the big contract was signed, there was a post (or several) from a Florida fan who was warning that Huberdeau really wasn’t as good as that 115 point season made him appear. The poster laid out a fair amount of detail backing up his assessment.