[Rumour] Francis: All contract talks on hold for Flames

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Yeah the UFA's have to be dealt with but this is the first trade I would make for sure. He is playing well and you will get a good return

Nah, his contract is pretty heavy and he controls where he goes. Unless the Flames are taking back a bad contract he won't garner much. I'd still be happy if they trade him though

[Enoch Root]

Markstrom would be a tough trade to make right now, but at the trade deadline, with a couple mill retained, he would generate interest for sure.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Exactly. Regardless of what you expected from this team before the season started, it is impossible to ignore the utter lack of compete and listless effort. You can't have watched these 9 games and think all is fine. THAT would be concerning.

Yup. Coach had to go for reasons beyond his coaching performance (if anybody thinks Sutter was fired for on-ice results, they’re out to lunch). Some on-ice issues were attributed to the off-ice stuff, so you expect them to go away with a new coach… except they don’t. And after a tenth of the season is in the books, you’re not going drop the coach for some of the same issues the last coach dealt with, you’re going to evaluate new information and go after the root of the problem.

They just look awful and careless. It’s not that they’re losing or struggling with a new system, it’s that they don’t look like they care about losing or figuring that system out.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Markstrom would be a tough trade to make right now, but at the trade deadline, with a couple mill retained, he would generate interest for sure.

I'd rather they use their slots on UFAs to maximize their returns rather than tying one up long term with Markstrom.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I'd rather they use their slots on UFAs to maximize their returns rather than tying one up long term with Markstrom.

Yeah, I don't disagree. It's a better move to look to trade Markstrom next year. I was just saying that I think he would definitely have value at the deadline, if they wanted to move him.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Nah, his contract is pretty heavy and he controls where he goes. Unless the Flames are taking back a bad contract he won't garner much. I'd still be happy if they trade him though

If that bad contract was short term that would be a good return. A placeholder and open up the spot for Wolf. I would just like to see as many youngsters in the lineup as possible. Let Vladar take all the losses and spot Wolf in the easiest games and add that high draft pick to the return.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Another indication this team has no plan and is flying by the seat of their pants. Sad to see. Had more hope for Conroy and would have hoped he learned from Treliving’s mistakes.

If anything, this is a stronger indictment that Conroy doesn't have autonomy to make major decisions. It's the ownership and upper management that haven't learned from their mistakes.

It is certainly a team with no plan, but if they do decide to move on from these players, it is at least the right decision. All of this provided that they are not making another hockey trade for a player like Huberdeau. If the aim is to trade for a younger player with upside, it is better than locking these two up for 7-8 years when they clearly don't even care enough to play hard for their next deal.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by NegativeSpace

I am comforted by the fact that win-now trades don't typically occur mid-season as teams that are trying to win-now don't want to give up players on their roster (leaving aside selling your player for spare parts - which I am praying that Conroy is smart enough to avoid). I am also comforted by the discussion that Conroy has had multiple times about growing the team through the draft and Iginla asking how many draft picks are too many. They can call it whatever they want - retool, rebuild, recovery - emphasize drafting and growing talent with the occasional smart signing.

I hope the ownership can be patient. Really going in the tank for the next 2-3’years before the new rink opens would likely allow them to kick off the inaugural season with some budding franchise players.

Vancouver last year went into buy and sell mode so the Flames could look at similar options as those 2 franchises have reputations for owners who do not like to rebuild and are incredibly impatient (not shocking there is 1 cup between the two teams in almost 100 years combined).

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

We knew this ages ago though.

We knew this from watching this team on TV. How does management, who is around them everyday not figure this out before us?

It sure sounded like Conroy was looking at trading some of the pending UFA's during the summer. Isn't it quite possible that there weren't any trades that made sense due to what was being offered in return? Should they have made the trade(s) anyway so that we could complain then about how bad of a GM he was to make such a bad trade(s)?

It's quite likely they had doubts about this team's makeup but also some optimism. We'd heard a rumour about management having a 20-game timeframe for the team to show who they were. The easiest games of that 20-game schedule have already come and gone - I'm guessing they felt they would have a better record over those first 9 games. They didn't. Looking at the difficulty of upcoming games, it makes sense that they already have an idea of what this team is all about.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

If anything, this is a stronger indictment that Conroy doesn't have autonomy to make major decisions. It's the ownership and upper management that haven't learned from their mistakes.

It is certainly a team with no plan, but if they do decide to move on from these players, it is at least the right decision. All of this provided that they are not making another hockey trade for a player like Huberdeau. If the aim is to trade for a younger player with upside, it is better than locking these two up for 7-8 years when they clearly don't even care enough to play hard for their next deal.

How does it show that Conroy has no autonomy?

I would argue the opposite.

[dammage79]

This is a bad start to the season. Kind of over the media scrambling for something or the downright pure negativity. Doesn't have to be positive but everything and everyone surrounding the Flames is just plain depressing. I'll watch the games still but uhhh I'm done following the sad parade.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

If anything, this is a stronger indictment that Conroy doesn't have autonomy to make major decisions. It's the ownership and upper management that haven't learned from their mistakes.

It is certainly a team with no plan, but if they do decide to move on from these players, it is at least the right decision. All of this provided that they are not making another hockey trade for a player like Huberdeau. If the aim is to trade for a younger player with upside, it is better than locking these two up for 7-8 years when they clearly don't even care enough to play hard for their next deal.

Man people sure see what they want to see.

Things not going the way I want: Conroy doesn't have the vision.

Things going more the way I want: It wasn't Conroy because... because... it just wasn't.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How does it show that Conroy has no autonomy?

I would argue the opposite.

You can make up anything you want. I think Conroy flew to the Isle of Man slapped Edwards in the head and said the rebuild starts now and Edwards was like yes sir but you have to call it a re-tool.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

People getting too hung up on language again.

Rebuild, re-tool, re-purpose, whatever... it's happening.

Yeah, "retool" is easier to market, and doesn't make existing STHs feel miseld so much.

At the end of the day the actual trades/signings/drafts are what matter.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

So interesting talk about lack of a plan. I think it's pretty hard to accuse this team of "not having a plan". They have most definitely, and in my opinion had a very clear plan for the last little while. Understood that many didn't agree with the plan, especially the last year, but to say there was a lack of a plan was not true.

For the all of Treliving's tenure, his plan was build a winning team around our home grown and drafted core (interestingly enough, the plan that most on here clamor for and beg for us to do - "rebuild" through the draft): Monahan, Johnny and Tkachuk. Certainly - Treliving went out and tried to supplement / augment pieces needed to compliment the core via trade and free agency, but the plan to me was pretty clear. Build a winner around those three pieces.

When Mony got injured, and Johnny and Tkachuk took their symbolic balls and went home, the most contenious issue is that Treliving stuck to the plan, and attempted to "swap" out the pieces. He did that just over a year ago. Since then, the team barely missed the playoffs, with a below average goaltending performance and apparently a coach that didn't bring the best out of the group.

Now queue Conroy as new GM. To suggest he lacks a plan, because he wanted some time to see if he could continue Treliving's plan (not such a wild thought if you take off the negativity glasses and look at last seasons results in an unbias fashion) or if he'd need to implement a new one, simply isn't fair.

Conroy is getting more and more data in his new role. He's seeing some of the impacts of the changes made this offseason, and while still fairly early, if he's starting to see enough and decide he needs to go an a certain direction - IMO that is the opposite of not having a plan. In fact it's likely the enactment of portions of a plan mapped out in the offseason, driven by the arrival of certain trigger points. I for one am glad he seems to be approaching it in this fashion.

But let's not kid ourselves, the fact Conny is having to go down the path he's going down, is not an exciting thing. We are likely hearing re-tool vs. re-build because starting a rebuild one season after locking into long term deals with Kadri and Huberdeau will be very difficult. Kind of the exact opposite situation Treliving inherited when he had to start his re-build / re-tool back in 2014ish..............most of our expiring aged contracts were off the books (assets weren't optimized by his predecessor mind you). Trying to do a full rebuild with Kadri and Huberdeau locked up long term......is a very tough spot for our rookie GM to navigate.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Just crazy to see so many apply their own definition to "retool" and then completely lose their minds in anger.

If you have two immovable contracts you likely call anything you do a retool.

It isn't an easy definition that means they are shortcutting anything, only acquiring veterans or avoiding draft picks.

I find it quite funny. Retool and rebuild are merely subjective words; it's not like they are some objective thing you'll find in nature. Guaranteed, going forward, that there will be a heated debate over every single move (or non-move) that the Flames make over the next few years about whether it is a retool or rebuild move.

IMO, call it a "not trying to make the playoffs as anything can happen" plan. I know, it's catchy as all hell.

[Bonded]

Also, has no one here managed a bad asset in their careers before. Typically you make some structural/strategy changes and see if that improves the operations/profitability while also continuing to build a contingency. Sometimes you move to that contingency plan.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

?? he and another poster brought them up guy

I'm not wrong though...short of a historic goalie performance their team is worse too. Numbers don't lie. I mean if the Pens beat the Hawks in game 81 its not even a controversial post at all.



Like do you just follow me around and talk ####? your dino7c fixation is bonkers man

We are all Panthers fans for the next two years. Don’t want the Habs getting a top 5 pick.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Shazam

The two teams should just trade all their players to each other. Breath of fresh air for everyone.

A loss for the Oilers in their next game and they have identical records. Everything is rosy up North.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by D as in David

A loss for the Oilers in their next game and they have identical records. Everything is rosy up North.

Woody gets fired and they hire Q to save the season.