[Rumour] LeBrun: All signs point to Hanifin not wanting to extend with Flames

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

As opposed to Giordano and his cap hit.

Cliffs right it’s not a stretch, but I agree. Come on, he’s no Giordano.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You can go on these futures tangents where you always want to sell off our good assets for less than their value but the ownership and GM see it otherwise, thank God.

Well ya it's a message board so I can post my thoughts and opinions. You should be the last one to talk. We had to listen to you guarantee Gaudreau was staying for 2 years.

And making trades with the future in mind isn't selling assets for less than their value. It's smart asset management and forecasting the trajectory of your team. They wasted Gaudreau and Tkachuk already. No need to waste Lindholm and Hanifin. Anyways ownership and the GM have the team in one of the worst spots out of all NHL franchises so maybe they'll be smart enough to change their plan after a couple more failed seasons.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Well ya it's a message board so I can post my thoughts and opinions. You should be the last one to talk. We had to listen to you guarantee Gaudreau was staying for 2 years.

And making trades with the future in mind isn't selling assets for less than their value. It's smart asset management and forecasting the trajectory of your team. They wasted Gaudreau and Tkachuk already. No need to waste Lindholm and Hanifin. Anyways ownership and the GM have the team in one of the worst spots out of all NHL franchises so maybe they'll be smart enough to change their plan after a couple more failed seasons.

lol a couple more...they were division champs last year and it wasn't even close

would have been up there again with average goaltending this season

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Well ya it's a message board so I can post my thoughts and opinions. You should be the last one to talk. We had to listen to you guarantee Gaudreau was staying for 2 years.

It wasn't two years, I had a source that said it was getting done and it didn't. It happens. Sec had a source that said Love was being named coach, it ended up Huska. Are you going to bring that up everytime time he posts some inside info? All that does is make someone not share anymore when they hear something which is a damn shame. Like when I posted I would be shocked if Sutter was back when everyone was musing the Flames chose him over Tre, it might just be I had heard something from someone I deem reliable but didn't want to post that I had heard anything because the last time I did that I got #### on for it, I still do obviously. Obviously looking back I should not have been so definitive because it was not done but I can say everyone in the Flames organization was if the same belief I was right up until the last hour. I don't care if your opinion differe from mine, I don't care if you think I am wrong, but if someone gets some inside info don't throw it back in their face every time you disagree on something. Also you literally said in your post the Flames should sell Hanifin for less value.

[robertsfanatic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

One dark horse possibility is Washington. They’re desperately thin at LD, and they have some cap space opening up. They’re not rebuilding (still trying to win with OV), but they have the #8 overall pick. I wonder if they’d be willing to part with it to go for one more big push. A fly in the ointment is the possibility Michkov might still be available at their pick.

Tom Wilson please.

edit: i know it's not the best value but i really want Wilson on the Flames

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It wasn't two years, I had a source that said it was getting done and it didn't. It happens. Sec had a source that said Love was being named coach, it ended up Huska. Are you going to bring that up everytime time he posts some inside info? All that does is make someone not share anymore when they hear something which is a damn shame. Like when I posted I would be shocked if Sutter was back when everyone was musing the Flames chose him over Tre, it might just be I had heard something from someone I deem reliable but didn't want to post that I had heard anything because the last time I did that I got #### on for it, I still do obviously. Obviously looking back I should not have been so definitive because it was not done but I can say everyone in the Flames organization was if the same belief I was right up until the last hour. I don't care if your opinion differe from mine, I don't care if you think I am wrong, but if someone gets some inside info don't throw it back in their face every time you disagree on something. Also you literally said in your post the Flames should sell Hanifin for less value.

Yeah, I hope there isn't a rubbing in your face moments with people with inside knowledge. It's a message board and various views can be heard. Sometimes getting invested in arguments is what brings the temp up but it's important to take a step back and relax. Anyway, I hope you do post what you hear. It's been super silent since Conroy's taken over, which probably means something is cooking.

[Poe969]

I had a bit of an "induced sleep" this afternoon and had a dream that we signed Lindholm to an 8x8 deal then traded him for 3 oa because the Flames retained 1 million per then they traded Hanifin to the caps for 8 oa. They got Leo Carlsson, Michkov, and somehow got ASP. The rebuild was happening!

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol a couple more...they were division champs last year and it wasn't even close

would have been up there again with average goaltending this season

If you were a GM and could choose any team in the league to try and build into a contender I think Calgary would be near the bottom of that list. The Ducks finished last and could easily finish below the Flames this year, but their future outlook is a lot stronger to eventually being a contender in my eyes. So what the Flames did 2 years ago is completely irrelevant when the 2 most important guys from that team are gone. Now consider the UFAs that could leave after this year. Consider the age of their core. Consider their lack of picks and high profile prospects moving forward. Consider the money and term sunk into older players. Conroy has his work cut out for himself.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If you were a GM and could choose any team in the league to try and build into a contender I think Calgary would be near the bottom of that list. The Ducks finished last and could easily finish below the Flames this year, but their future outlook is a lot stronger to eventually being a contender in my eyes. So what the Flames did 2 years ago is completely irrelevant when the 2 most important guys from that team are gone. Now consider the UFAs that could leave after this year. Consider the age of their core. Consider their lack of picks and high profile prospects moving forward. Consider the money and term sunk into older players. Conroy has his work cut out for himself.

Conroy made it very clear in his presser he would deal with all with them one way or another so I'm not sure that's a negative at this point.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Also you literally said in your post the Flames should sell Hanifin for less value.

Its common sense. No one is trading a better player for UFA Hanifin and if they do it comes with a major caveat like that player is a UFA as well. At which point you'd be either letting that player go for nothing or trading them for something "less." No UFA returns something of better value UNLESS you take futures. But most of the time you're taking the best you can get with UFAs and yes it's usually less value.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Conroy made it very clear in his presser he would deal with all with them one way or another so I'm not sure that's a negative at this point.

It's a positive if you want to flip them for assets. It's a negative if your goal is win immediately because one way or another youre losing some good players.. I see it as a big opportunity but who knows what direction he actually chooses.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I had a bit of an "induced sleep" this afternoon and had a dream that we signed Lindholm to an 8x8 deal then traded him for 3 oa because the Flames retained 1 million per then they traded Hanifin to the caps for 8 oa. They got Leo Carlsson, Michkov, and somehow got ASP. The rebuild was happening!

What a coup that would be. I seriously doubt any of that would happen. However, if the flames did a sign-and-trade with Lindholm while retaining salary, I wonder if there is a salary-retention number where he would get you 3rd overall from Columbus? No team has ever done it but imagine signing Lindholm to an 8x8 and then trading him to Columbus with 40-50% salary retained. Who says no? Besides the obvious answer of Murray Edwards.

Similarily… who says no in signing and retaining a bunch of Hanifin’s salary to get a top 10 pick in the draft?

It’s obviously a crazy notion and would likely never happen in NHL. That would be committing to 8 years of around $7 million in dead cap space. I don’t think anything like that has ever been done. All of a sudden, those older players would have lower cap hits over the 8 years of their deals than the younger players that would be drafted using the acquired picks (assuming the drafted players became star players on the team).


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[Bingo Jr.]

Originally Posted by stemit14

What a coup that would be. I seriously doubt any of that would happen. However, if the flames did a sign-and-trade with Lindholm while retaining salary, I wonder if there is a salary-retention number where he would get you 3rd overall from Columbus? No team has ever done it but imagine signing Lindholm to an 8x8 and then trading him to Columbus with 40-50% salary retained. Who says no? Besides the obvious answer of Murray Edwards.

Similarily… who says no in signing and retaining a bunch of Hanifin’s salary to get a top 10 pick in the draft?

It’s obviously a crazy notion and would likely never happen in NHL. That would be committing to 8 years of around $7 million in dead cap space. I don’t think anything like that has ever been done. All of a sudden, those older players would have lower cap hits over the 8 years of their deals than the younger players that would be drafted using the acquired picks (assuming the drafted players became star players on the team).


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There's a reason it's never been done.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Bingo Jr.

There's a reason it's never been done.

There was also never a sign and trade in the NHL until Tkachuk last year.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Bingo Jr.

There's a reason it's never been done.

For sure. It’s more of a hypothetical asking how much salary retention it would take to get picks that high (3rd overall for Lindholm) and (8th/9th or 10th overall for Hanifin). I don’t even know if the teams with those picks are at all willing to trade for either of those players even with crazy salary retention on long-term deals. This draft is getting a lot of hype for how deep and skilled it is… teams may have no appetite at all for giving up picks in the top ten unless it’s for a super-star level player with years of high production ahead of him.


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[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Bingo Jr.

There's a reason it's never been done.

Heckuva burden to bear, to hold to the notion that because something has never occurred, it won’t ever.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by stemit14

For sure. It’s more of a hypothetical asking how much salary retention it would take to get picks that high (3rd overall for Lindholm) and (8th/9th or 10th overall for Hanifin). I don’t even know if the teams with those picks are at all willing to trade for either of those players even with crazy salary retention on long-term deals. This draft is getting a lot of hype for how deep and skilled it is… teams may have no appetite at all for giving up picks in the top ten unless it’s for a super-star level player with years of high production ahead of him.


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The crazy retention would be hard to swallow and not worth it outside of pulling a generational guy. Carlson busts or tops out as #2C and it looks even worse

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The crazy retention would be hard to swallow and not worth it outside of pulling a generational guy. Carlson busts or tops out as #2C and it looks even worse

Absolutely. Tons of risk and cost by the flames. Even if Carlson became a franchise player, his cap hit would essentially be $5 to $7 million dollars for the first 3 years (his entry level AAV + the retained salary from Lindholm). And then his second contract would be even more of a crazy cap hit… just think if Carlson was so good he was signed for $10 million per year in his second NHL contract - his effective cap hit would actually be $14.5 million per year.

That’s why it’s more of a hypothetical… I understand why Calgary would not do something like this… it’s more a question of if Columbus says no and what level of salary retention would make them switch from no to yes? Does Columbus say yes to Lindholm at a $4.5 million AAV for 8 years in exchange for 3rd overall?

Does Washington, Detroit or St. Louis say no to Hanifin at $3.5 million AAV for 8 years in exchange for 8th, 9th or 10 overall, respectively?

On the topic of salary retention… can teams retain salary on only select years of a traded contract? For example… retaining 50% of the salary each year for the first 3 years and then only 10% for the remains years? Not sure if that is allowed.


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[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Hackey

If you were a GM and could choose any team in the league to try and build into a contender I think Calgary would be near the bottom of that list. The Ducks finished last and could easily finish below the Flames this year, but their future outlook is a lot stronger to eventually being a contender in my eyes. So what the Flames did 2 years ago is completely irrelevant when the 2 most important guys from that team are gone. Now consider the UFAs that could leave after this year. Consider the age of their core. Consider their lack of picks and high profile prospects moving forward. Consider the money and term sunk into older players. Conroy has his work cut out for himself.

I mean they had .920 goaltending that season
if they had that last season the record would have been similar even with terrible years from Kadri and Huberdeau and some really odd coaching choices

Flames were almost never outplayed last season...they couldn't get a save

I'm not against trading anyone who won't sign long term or even if the deal is a win but it gets really tiring when you guys always come here and say how terrible the Flames are all the time. With proper coaching and goaltending they would have been as good as anyone last season.

They dominated Boston like they had never been dominated before (their announcers words) but weak sauce goaltending cost them the game

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I mean they had .920 goaltending that season
if they had that last season the record would have been similar even with terrible years from Kadri and Huberdeau and some really odd coaching choices

Flames were almost never outplayed last season...they couldn't get a save

Good thing we gassed the coach that made all of that possible.