[GT] Alberta Votes 2023.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by pylon

I'm at work today, and have about 5 hours of work to get done in the next 2, so I wouldn't even be able to scratch the surface. But in reality, why does it matter to you? I have made my choice, and some random stranger on a message board, isn't going to sway my opinion.

Regardless of what happens, I'll accept the results and move on with my life. And maybe if I get a minute or ten, I'll oblige and lay out why I voted UCP and not NDP since I seem to have forgotten to ask your permission exercise my voting rights without explaining it to you first.

If you don't want to discuss your vote, on a discussion forum, why bring it up at all? You say you're conservative, which is fine, but many other conservatives on CP have voted differently. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you why you did.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by pylon

I'm at work today, and have about 5 hours of work to get done in the next 2, so I wouldn't even be able to scratch the surface. But in reality, why does it matter to you? I have made my choice, and some random stranger on a message board, isn't going to sway my opinion.

Regardless of what happens, I'll accept the results and move on with my life. And maybe if I get a minute or ten, I'll oblige and lay out why I voted UCP and not NDP since I seem to have forgotten to ask your permission exercise my voting rights without explaining it to you first.

I’m sorry if my post seemed inflammatory, I understand that you already voted. I’m not trying to change your mind and agree that you certainly don’t need my permission to vote. The response you’ve given certainly doesn’t match the energy of the question, so perhaps that’s on me and I could have phrased it differently

But it was a good faith question. The opinion you’ve expressed is very common and I’m just curious as to what exactly your values are, what you perceive the ucp and andps platforms are, and why you align with one more than the other outside of name recognition. My goal is understanding, not to change yours or anyone else’s mind

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Ditto for Austin, NYC, Chicago, Boston, San Fran, LA, Seattle etc. Most Major metropolitan areas tend to be Dem.

5 of those 7 cities have suffered significant recent population losses. Lots of issues with quality of life in the central cores of American metros.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by accord1999

5 of those 7 cities have suffered significant recent population losses. Lots of issues with quality of life in the central cores of American metros.

Imagine, the largest cities have the largest numerical decreases.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Imagine, the largest cities have the largest numerical decreases.

Imagine cities better run so they don't lose population to begin with.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by pylon

I'm at work today, and have about 5 hours of work to get done in the next 2, so I wouldn't even be able to scratch the surface. But in reality, why does it matter to you? I have made my choice, and some random stranger on a message board, isn't going to sway my opinion.

Regardless of what happens, I'll accept the results and move on with my life. And maybe if I get a minute or ten, I'll oblige and lay out why I voted UCP and not NDP since I seem to have forgotten to ask your permission exercise my voting rights without explaining it to you first.

I think you've been around long enough I trust this conversation will come back around. But I think at some point people really need to grapple with what the meaning of the word conservative is, and why they call themselves conservative. The UPC is not a conservative party, they are a libertarian party at best, and in reality the ANDP is basically a PC party with a different name. Everyone here is free to do what they will do, you included, but I think people earnestly ask you about policy details because we suspect you vote went into style over substance, and when you say you can't vote ANDP because you're conservative, you've missed where the real conservatives are (see Jeromy Farkas)

[timun]

It's safe to say that no matter what happens in this election, a huge chunk of the population will be deeply dissatisfied with the results.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by #-3

you've missed where the real conservatives are (see Jeromy Farkas)

Really wish he would have won the Mayor's chair.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Imagine cities better run so they don't lose population to begin with.

Imagine, Covid never happened and people can't work from home so they can't leave their proximity to their office.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by stone hands

I’m sorry if my post seemed inflammatory, I understand that you already voted. I’m not trying to change your mind and agree that you certainly don’t need my permission to vote. The response you’ve given certainly doesn’t match the energy of the question, so perhaps that’s on me and I could have phrased it differently

But it was a good faith question. The opinion you’ve expressed is very common and I’m just curious as to what exactly your values are, what you perceive the ucp and andps platforms are, and why you align with one more than the other outside of name recognition. My goal is understanding, not to change yours or anyone else’s mind

Very quickly then:

I do not support raising any taxes at this point. Be it corporate or individual. Full stop. Especially in such a resource rich province.

I believe that two tier health care should be explored. The current system is not working well. I feel that taking those with the means to pay for private care out of the system, will only help those wanting to stay in the public system by freeing up public beds and doctors, and reducing the overall cost and wait times. Instead of people with means flying South, keep the taxes and the employment in the Province.

I appreciate the Conservatives stance on protecting the rights of licensed responsible gun owners. The current issues with gun violence have nothing to do with us, and everything to do with illegal gun importation.

And I am 100% against any safe supply policies. They aren't working in BC, they will not work here.

Those are my humble opinions. I may be right, I may be wrong. But one party aligns with my values, and one doesn't.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Imagine, Covid never happened and people can't work from home so they can't leave their proximity to their office.

Imagine a universe where you are both kinda right

[#-3]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Really wish he would have won the Mayor's chair.

It really seems like losing was a valuable life lesson for him, but while not exactly excited about our current mayor, and am still happy we do not have the Farkas of 2 years ago in that chair. I really hope if he does get back into politics he is able to maintain his new found earnestness, but I would still want to see him in action for a bit with a lower level position before opining for him to be in an executive role.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Really wish he would have won the Mayor's chair.

I'm not a big Gondek fan but he would have been a disaster. He says he's glad he lost because it inspired him to grow as a person. He's done some good things since then, like running the Pacific Crest Trail for charity.

He's given his support for the NDP this election. That doesn't mean he's any less conservative, but he's much more reasonable. If he gives it another go he might win, and I might actually support him.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by #-3

It really seems like losing was a valuable life lesson for him, but while not exactly excited about our current mayor, and am still happy we do not have the Farkas of 2 years ago in that chair. I really hope if he does get back into politics he is able to maintain his new found earnestness, but I would still want to see him in action for a bit with a lower level position before opining for him to be in an executive role.

Fair point. I guess my view of him is tempered by who he is now vs who he was when he ran confused by my absolute hatred for Gondek.

[timun]

Originally Posted by pylon

Very quickly then:

I do not support raising any taxes at this point. Be it corporate or individual. Full stop. Especially in such a resource rich province.

I believe that two tier health care should be explored. The current system is not working well. I feel that taking those with the means to pay for private care out of the system, will only help those wanting to stay in the public system by freeing up public beds and doctors, and reducing the overall cost and wait times. Instead of people with means flying South, keep the taxes and the employment in the Province.

I appreciate the Conservatives stance on protecting the rights of licensed responsible gun owners. The current issues with gun violence have nothing to do with us, and everything to do with illegal gun importation.

And I am 100% against any safe supply policies. They aren't working in BC, they will not work here.

Those are my humble opinions. I may be right, I may be wrong. But one party aligns with my values, and one doesn't.

Can't say I agree with all of this, but I applaud your honesty.

[White Out 403]

Is there any evidence anywhere in Canadian history that privatization helps the public system?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

Very quickly then:

I do not support raising any taxes at this point. Be it corporate or individual. Full stop. Especially in such a resource rich province.

I believe that two tier health care should be explored. The current system is not working well. I feel that taking those with the means to pay for private care out of the system, will only help those wanting to stay in the public system by freeing up public beds and doctors, and reducing the overall cost and wait times. Instead of people with means flying South, keep the taxes and the employment in the Province.

I appreciate the Conservatives stance on protecting the rights of licensed responsible gun owners. The current issues with gun violence have nothing to do with us, and everything to do with illegal gun importation.

And I am 100% against any safe supply policies. They aren't working in BC, they will not work here.

Those are my humble opinions. I may be right, I may be wrong. But one party aligns with my values, and one doesn't.

A very few minutes of research would have told you this won't work, and it makes the public system worse. You have made a choice that will make my life worse. I've already waited 2 years for a referral(with a year to go!). If we had private care, that doctor(who also does private plastic surgery) would not be available to the public system at all, and the few doctors left would be even more stretched.


Your past choices of voting for a party that has managed to do what they have to healthcare, in, as you describe, a resource rich province, is open to critique. You are continuing to do the same, for the sake of lower business taxes(despite Notley campaigning on the lowest business taxes in Canada). I find this incredibly baffling as a priority, and maybe one day you'll get to experience what I have over the last 14. It has not been good, and because you are a part of that, I think it's fair enough to hold you to account on your vote for basing it on false premises.


I know Conservatives tend not to be compassionate about the suffering their choices leave on others, so I expect a lot of "I can make up my own mind" which, sure you can. But your choices affect everyone.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by #-3

It really seems like losing was a valuable life lesson for him, but while not exactly excited about our current mayor, and am still happy we do not have the Farkas of 2 years ago in that chair. I really hope if he does get back into politics he is able to maintain his new found earnestness, but I would still want to see him in action for a bit with a lower level position before opining for him to be in an executive role.

Are people actually buying Farkas' bull#### act? He showed us who he was when he was an elected councilman. It's not the guy trying to build support now that he's outside of politics.

No one radically changes their outlook on life because they needed teamwork on a hike. Unless he got kicked in the head by a horse during it.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What other interpretation is there? Your post was again full of vagueness and overarching ideals with no substance.

What did Notley do to the rural people of Alberta? Like actually do? Are you talking Bill-1 which did almost none of the things that were feared in regards to the family farm and actually assisted laborer's in rural Alberta?

What "pejorative and at worst marginalizing" did you mean in regards to NDP rhetoric? For the vast majority of the campaign all the NDP did was show clips of the bat#### crazy stuff that Smith has actually said.

How are the UCP actually supporting their constituents in rural Alberta by allowing funding to be siphoned away from the municipalities through funding cuts from the Provincial level or through allowing the millions in unpaid taxes to the municipalities to continue?

Your entire post just proved the point that the UCP have very few if no actual receipts that prove they are better at anything other than enriching the already rich and emboldening the bigots of society.

I'll admit I had to google "epistemological", and the key word I took out is Justifiable. I would love to see an actual justifiable argument instead of empty generalities.

I'm happy to talk specifics.

Point 1. With respect to Bill 6. The bill was not poorly received because of it's intent but in the way that it was constructed and delivered. For one the Bill at first delivery did not have a nuanced understanding of how farms operate. Which leads to the most important criticism, which is that it was crafted without any formal, or informal consultation. The sensitivity around this is largely due to the fact that farms are not just livelihoods, but peoples homes. Farm safety of course is no small concern, you'd be hard pressed to find a family who have not felt the impact. rural schools, special interest groups and the like work hard to promote farm safety through education and support. The dissatisfaction with the bill again, was because the bill lacked clarity and nuance. Farmers are no strangers to having their work legislated. Indeed, there is a great deal more regulation and administration around paying employees. It was the confusion, and again lack of consultation surrounding unpaid workers that caused frustration. The political environment continues to lack nuance with efforts to reduce carbon by taxing beef production, this ignores a more nuanced understanding of the environment which works to balance carbon pollution, with biodiversity. Soy of course is less water and carbon intensive, but kills all the wild flowers. again these legislations create a great deal of anxiety because it is not just your lively hood but your home, and in the case of most farmers the home of your ancestors.

Point 2. Search the word rural in the Alberta politics forum and try quote one nice thing said. Maybe you've got a point that this is all about "feelies" but it ain't nice. Of course the NDP have not formally insulted my intelligence, but many of their volunteers ( according to the thread) have.

Point 3. I would prefer not to speak in specifics, as to give up my location and occupation. No less, our representative shows up to fundraisers and gives support. When I have needed help, they have shown up. It is in rural communities as much about the individual as the party, again this maybe different in cities.

Which leads to the point about epistemologies. These are frameworks of knowledge of which we apply information to. In short a world view. I have a different world view than you, and that it okay. It is because we live in different world. All the same there is common ground, as a socialist I work to find it with my neighbors everyday. Maybe we could do the same.

[#-3]

I think we could have a pretty valuable debate on the merits of pylons points. But I think he voted for the correct party, and I also don't think he is conservative in the the prudent, institutionalist, monetary restrained sense of the word.