[PGT] Jets 3 Flames 2

[blender]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I can’t disagree with Coffee. If I were in Coronato’s position, I’d be perfectly content to finish off my degree and go to free agency or to inform the Flames that I won’t be signing there and it’s in their best interest to move me.

Being a young player and playing for Darryl Sutter just doesn’t strike me as beneficial to a career.

(and I’m not hammering Sutter/blaming him for the mediocrity that is this season, I just don’t think being a young player under him would be at the top of my list if I had other options)

Why don't you see Sutter as a benefit to a young player?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by blender

I understand your point, but I think you take it too far. NHL is a hard league to stick in, let alone make a career. I would argue that coming up in a Sutter system might be an advantage to many players looking to carve out a career. If you can play for Sutter you can play for anyone.
What star players has Sutter or the Flames held back? If Coronato can play, he'll play. If he wants to be a prima dona and walk, then hopefully Treliving can sniff it out and trade him for something.

This is no longer the NHL from the 90’s or even 00’s. The reality is that kids come in and play at an extremely high level off the bat. Can you honestly tell me in watching Phillips that you had objective issues in any of those games that he played in?

Sutter relies on experience and “cup winners” too much and the reality is that while there is some value to that experience, at the end of the day you need to make the playoffs, and hungry kids can get you there during the doldrums of the regular season. Cup winners and experienced vets making millions probably view Jan and Feb in a season the same way you and I view going to the office. Mathew Phillips will treat it like playing for his career, because he is.

It’s the same absolute and obvious BS with how they treated Kylington. Would make the exact same mistakes his more experienced teammates would but gets punished more due to favouritism and bias to experienced vets. Meanwhile Kylingtons actual strengths in speed and puck movement were immensely important and are (obviously) sorely missed this year. Same with Phillips. You got the leading AHL scorer sitting in the minors and meanwhile our team struggles offensively so you bring him up on small minutes in lines 3/4 under some vague BS excuse of being “too small” (doesn’t matter anymore) and don’t REALLY give this kid a chance. It is total, absolute, garbage.

Yeah let’s watch Mangiapane disinterested for a few more games because of reasons or something. F that. Play the hot hands. Play the guys that are desperate for their careers.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by blender

Why don't you see Sutter as a benefit to a young player?

Because he has a bias for the “safe”/irrelevant veteran with size.

Pelletier and Phillips would both bring more than what Lucic does to this team (don’t care about “in the room”, he’d still be “in the room”).

Sutter is very actively showing what he wants at the NHL level (size and veteran status, or size when size and veteran status is unavailable).

[Draug]

Originally Posted by blender

Because he isn't reliable enough defensively for this team. One bad play leading to a goal against can be the difference in every game. Too risky if the coaches don't trust a player.

Exactly why I would like to see at least 2 or even 3 young players that can score in the lineup. Maybe with a faster, more youthful line-up, the Flames could outscore one more mistake per game?

It feels like the Jets did just that to us tonight.

As long as Sutter remains overly hard on young players, this is what we will get all season long. 3-2 games, win some, lose some. I imagine Sutter has determined that this style of game is exactly what is needed for a deep playoff run, and trusts it will pay off then. Its the only reason I can think of as to why he is being so stubborn.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I can’t disagree with Coffee. If I were in Coronato’s position, I’d be perfectly content to finish off my degree and go to free agency or to inform the Flames that I won’t be signing there and it’s in their best interest to move me.

Being a young player and playing for Darryl Sutter just doesn’t strike me as beneficial to a career.

(and I’m not hammering Sutter/blaming him for the mediocrity that is this season, I just don’t think being a young player under him would be at the top of my list if I had other options)

I do disagree with blender on “if Coronato can play, he’ll play” as that’s not the case under Sutter this year. He has a strong bias and we’ve seen it every night this season. It’s not just about being a “star”. Matthew Phillips has earned an NHL opportunity and Sutter isn’t interested. There’s nothing more Phillips can do at the AHL level to earn a shot, and Sutter said “nah”. Youth in depth positions in important, and Sutter prefers his “safe” (and in some cases, bad) veteran depth.

Exactly. Here’s another example. Sutter talks about consistency with Ruzicka. He has not been good for 5 games now. You want to have some meritocracy so why not demote Ruzicka to send the message more clearly and bring up Phillips. This way you don’t even have to mess with your weird obsession with vets that don’t add offence and I bet Phillips adds more offence than Ruzicka.

Meanwhile let’s blame Markstrom and we still can’t score. And have Andersson pass on the PP. so dumb. Like this #### is obvious.

[blender]

We've heard all this before and you guys may be right, or this may just be kneejerking to the lack of finish and middling results thus far, but Sutter hockey is winning hockey if the team is buying in, and I feel they are getting there. It's only half way through the season. We may see call-ups yet. If a player came up now it would be a 60+game run including playoffs. Maybe patience is part of the plan. We'll see. I always wait until the season is over to pass judgment and I try to enjoy the hockey while its happening.

[BoLevi]

The problem isn't just a lack of finish, it's a lack of finishers

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by blender

We've heard all this before and you guys may be right, or this may just be kneejerking to the lack of finish and middling results thus far, but Sutter hockey is winning hockey if the team is buying in, and I feel they are getting there. It's only half way through the season. We may see call-ups yet. If a player came up now it would be a 60+game run including playoffs. Maybe patience is part of the plan. We'll see. I always wait until the season is over to pass judgment and I try to enjoy the hockey while its happening.

Here’s the thing. I love Sutters plan of vets and grinders, and especially the type of players we have, for the playoffs. That’s where I think that experience will pay off in spades, and the way these guys play. And heck those 4th line guys in Lewis and Ritchie are actually playing awesome this year. It’s lines 2/3 that I have concerns and making the playoffs. I’m not saying Phillips needs a permanent spot, but in the doldrums of Jan / Feb, when we need energy and offense, he would be a great option. We can’t afford Coleman and Mangiapane playing every 5th or 6th night. We will miss the playoffs is my concern. Once we get there, he can banish Phillips to Nunavut if needed, that is fine. But our leading scorer is 56th in the NHL, our PP is 25th. And we very very very obviously need way more offense.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

This is no longer the NHL from the 90’s or even 00’s. The reality is that kids come in and play at an extremely high level off the bat. Can you honestly tell me in watching Phillips that you had objective issues in any of those games that he played in? He didn't contribute much; I agree with leash maybe being too short

Sutter relies on experience and “cup winners” too much and the reality is that while there is some value to that experience, at the end of the day you need to make the playoffs, and hungry kids can get you there during the doldrums of the regular season. Cup winners and experienced vets making millions probably view Jan and Feb in a season the same way you and I view going to the office.Don't be too sure about what I think about going to work. Why do you think I work in an office? Mathew Phillips will treat it like playing for his career, because he is.

It’s the same absolute and obvious BS with how they treated Kylington. Would make the exact same mistakes his more experienced teammates would but gets punished more due to favouritism and bias to experienced vets. Meanwhile Kylingtons actual strengths in speed and puck movement were immensely important and are (obviously) sorely missed this year.Are you saying that the Flames didn't develop Kylington into a mobile puck-moving top 4 NHL Defenseman? Same with Phillips. You got the leading AHL scorer sitting in the minors and meanwhile our team struggles offensively so you bring him up on small minutes in lines 3/4 under some vague BS excuse of being “too small” (doesn’t matter anymore) and don’t REALLY give this kid a chance. It is total, absolute, garbage.

Yeah let’s watch Mangiapane disinterested for a few more games because of reasons or something. F that. Play the hot hands. Play the guys that are desperate for their careers.

Pick up a win next game and we will be feeling better.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by blender

Pick up a win next game and we will be feeling better.

More like pick up a 6 game win streak and I will feel better.

And don’t get me wrong, the Jets are an excellent team I was not expecting a blowout or anything. But this team needs way more 3 or 4 goal nights. 1-2 goals is not enough this year. You can tell by just looking at our defensive stats, and our GAA. Need goals. Can’t just sit around blaming goalies after they make 6 unbelievable saves and our forwards aren’t crashing the net. Or I should add- hitting the net. This has to be one of the most inaccurate teams I have ever seen.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Because he has a bias for the “safe”/irrelevant veteran with size.

Pelletier and Phillips would both bring more than what Lucic does to this team (don’t care about “in the room”, he’d still be “in the room”).

Sutter is very actively showing what he wants at the NHL level (size and veteran status, or size when size and veteran status is unavailable).

Pretty sure the team knew that when they hired him. They hired him for proven leadership and being able to build a competitive team. He was brought in to right a sinking ship. I think he’s done that.

There are a number of players that have said he had a huge impact on their careers. There are only so many spots on the roster. He can’t play a quarter of the wranglers roster just to appease the fans.

Give the guy a break. He’s probably one of the most knowledgeable and experienced coaches in the game. The Flames are lucky to have him.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Pretty sure the team knew that when they hired him. They hired him for proven leadership and being able to build a competitive team. He was brought in to right a sinking ship. I think he’s done that.

There are a number of players that have said he had a huge impact on their careers. There are only so many spots on the roster. He can’t play a quarter of the wranglers roster just to appease the fans.

Give the guy a break. He’s probably one of the most knowledgeable and experienced coaches in the game. The Flames are lucky to have him.

He’s been way worse this season than last. It’s not close.

[zamler]

Flames are hovering around a wildcard team most of the time, need to get it together soon.

[Goriders]

The wildcard teams are a win or two out of being in the top 3 in their division though.

Just making the playoffs this year will be an accomplishment. The league is so tight anyone could win it.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

He’s been way worse this season than last. It’s not close.

Would you rather have the guy from up north of us?

I think Sutter will be fine.

[Mr.Coffee]

They are going to need a large win streak to BE a wildcard team and make the playoffs, IMO. Things always have a way of tightening up and getting harder down the stretch. They need to play with the same desperation they did tonight- every night.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Would you rather have the guy from up north of us?

I think Sutter will be fine.

I mean… no, but they are 1 pt behind us so…

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Did Zahorna actually play? I don't remember seeing him on the ice much.

I thought he had a good game. That fourth line created alot of zone time IMO

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I mean… no, but they are 1 pt behind us so…

Trending in different directions though. The Flames have been playing well for the last month.

The Edmonton Globetrotters on the other hand.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Trending in different directions though. The Flames have been playing well for the last month.

The Edmonton Globetrotters on the other hand.

Sutter of last year would say “W’s……. That’s all I care about”.