[PGT] Flames beat Capitals 5-2

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

It's not the players guys, it's the system. We're the only team in the league without a 20 point player.

just means we're deep af!

r .. right guys?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Mindtravellee

Is trh Mango, Kadri and Dube line starting to mesh, or.judt Mang and Dube gelling together?

Last night it was mangiapane and dube. Kadri has been close to invisible for a couple of weeks.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Last night it was mangiapane and dube. Kadri has been close to invisible for a couple of weeks.

He made the 2nd Mangiapane goal possible with a great play/pass on the boards

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

It's not the players guys, it's the system. We're the only team in the league without a 20 point player.

Schedule is a factor....I'm better so e Flames have a big month

[Coach]

Originally Posted by MrMike

With his contract, you make the team fit him.

Outside of one fancy zone exit in pre-season, I haven’t seen anything exceptional from Huberdeau that suggests an entire structure should be built to fit his game.

Been pretty disappointed with him thus far. But great players have had rough stretches before. But it’s just tough to see which part of his game is elite at this point. Hopefully it wakes up soon. Games certainly aren’t as entertaining without Gaudreaus skill. Understanding players are different, but 100 pt players usually look like they have a step on everyone else in at least one area.

[Tsawwassen]

Postgame links
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl...ec-3-1.6673692
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/games/2466027/
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401458969
https://stats.cbc.ca/hockey/nhl/recap/146165

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

It's not the players guys, it's the system. We're the only team in the league without a 20 point player.

I said this about 10 games ago and still think the same. The system seems like a really bad fit for Huberdeau's game, Sutter requires his players to outwork & outskate other teams and that's the opposite what Huby has done in his career. He is an opportunistic, offensive (one dimensional) winger who picks his spots and beats defenses with his cerebral play/vision/passing skills rather than his feet.



And the worst thing is I don't know what else he can really do, he has adjusted his game and like Sutter said a few games ago he's playing much better. I still think he can put up more points than he has but the way he tries to play right now he looks like a different player on the ice, and not in a good way.

[JohnnyB]

At the start many people thought that a Sutter team wouldn't work for Gaudreau, but in the end Sutter got him to the next level as a player and an even bigger star. Is Huberdeau as adaptable or willing to adapt as Johnny was? The team needs him to be, because just fitting a team around him is no small ask and the window to compete was supposed to be now. He's not a 24 year-old that you build around for the future. He's a 29 year-old that you need to deliver now and expect diminishing returns from as time goes on.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

At the start many people thought that a Sutter team wouldn't work for Gaudreau, but in the end Sutter got him to the next level as a player and an even bigger star. Is Huberdeau as adaptable or willing to adapt as Johnny was? The team needs him to be, because just fitting a team around him is no small ask and the window to compete was supposed to be now. He's not a 24 year-old that you build around for the future. He's a 29 year-old that you need to deliver now and expect diminishing returns from as time goes on.

Yeah, like scoring wasn't an issue last season. The only thing that changed since then are some core player changes, so I lean towards the issue being more player related than system. I guess it can be both as Sutter teams tend to take a while to get going and there were enough big changes that it could be considered a reset.

Many talented players have had career offensive outputs under Sutter though, so I don't think his systems are the detriment to scoring that many people say they are.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

At the start many people thought that a Sutter team wouldn't work for Gaudreau, but in the end Sutter got him to the next level as a player and an even bigger star. Is Huberdeau as adaptable or willing to adapt as Johnny was? The team needs him to be, because just fitting a team around him is no small ask and the window to compete was supposed to be now. He's not a 24 year-old that you build around for the future. He's a 29 year-old that you need to deliver now and expect diminishing returns from as time goes on.

The one thing I get from Huberdeau is he cares.

Almost instantly after the trade he was sporting Flames jerseys at golf tournaments.

That's a guy that isn't thinking about himself or his style under Sutter; he's just freaking out because it isn't working out and putting more pressure on himself.

I think it's harder to be that guy than the guy that thinks his crap doesn't stink after a trade and comes in cocky.

I expect it to correct and he'll start creating more when he has a everything goes in night.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

More than 24 games lol

He also had 4 points in 3 games coming into last night

How many times have you jumped down the throat of a poster who quotes a player's point total as evidence they are not producing? I believe you like to say there is more to winning than points.

Well 4 points in 4 games for our star forward really isn't evidence of anything.

Although I will say this about him. If you believe in the value of high danger chances for and against he has quietly been a net positive this year. Which if you look over his career, he has had more net negative seasons than positive ones. So maybe there is a Sutter effect.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How many times have you jumped down the throat of a poster who quotes a player's point total as evidence they are not producing? I believe you like to say there is more to winning than points.

Well 4 points in 4 games for our star forward really isn't evidence of anything.

Although I will say this about him. If you believe in the value of high danger chances for and against he has quietly been a net positive this year. Which if you look over his career, he has had more net negative seasons than positive ones. So maybe there is a Sutter effect.

Yeah and noticeable splits since he came back from injury.

1-5 53.1 xgf%
6-10 48.4%
11-15 72.6%
16-20 64.7%

1-5 56.7 HDCF%
6-10 50.2%
11-15 76.7%
16-20 67.7%

Game 21 100% HDCF%

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The one thing I get from Huberdeau is he cares.

Almost instantly after the trade he was sporting Flames jerseys at golf tournaments.

That's a guy that isn't thinking about himself or his style under Sutter; he's just freaking out because it isn't working out and putting more pressure on himself.

I think it's harder to be that guy than the guy that thinks his crap doesn't stink after a trade and comes in cocky.

I expect it to correct and he'll start creating more when he has a everything goes in night.

Did not see the game on Saturday, but the thing that is worrisome about Huberdeau is that he's still going long stretches where you barely even notice him on the ice.

If it were just a case of him not finding the net that would be one thing, but I'm not seeing many of those high impact plays that you would expect from one of the biggest point producing wingers in the league.

I do think he needs a game where he goes off for 3-4 points to really loosen him up. Until then, I do hope he can find a way to start putting up more points or at least impacting the PP a little more than he has been.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Did not see the game on Saturday, but the thing that is worrisome about Huberdeau is that he's still going long stretches where you barely even notice him on the ice.

If it were just a case of him not finding the net that would be one thing, but I'm not seeing many of those high impact plays that you would expect from one of the biggest point producing wingers in the league.

I do think he needs a game where he goes off for 3-4 points to really loosen him up. Until then, I do hope he can find a way to start putting up more points or at least impacting the PP a little more than he has been.

I thought he was pretty bad on Saturday. Looked completely out of sync with the rest of his line. A lot of pass attempts either broken up or fired off into nowhere. He tried his spinorama move a few times, which usually led to him losing the puck.

I feel like in Florida, his linemates probably adjusted their game to compliment what Huberdeau was doing. The chemistry with his line mates now just isn't the same now.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

At the start many people thought that a Sutter team wouldn't work for Gaudreau, but in the end Sutter got him to the next level as a player and an even bigger star. Is Huberdeau as adaptable or willing to adapt as Johnny was? The team needs him to be, because just fitting a team around him is no small ask and the window to compete was supposed to be now. He's not a 24 year-old that you build around for the future. He's a 29 year-old that you need to deliver now and expect diminishing returns from as time goes on.

I just checked Gaudreau's stats when Sutter took over, he had 29 points in the remaining 33 games that year. And this was a mid-season change where no one had a training camp or pre-season games under Sutter's system. So I'm not sure I buy the argument that Huberdeau needs more time, maybe that's the case but like others have said he's barely noticeable right now and playing in a different way he has played the last ten years.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I just checked Gaudreau's stats when Sutter took over, he had 29 points in the remaining 33 games that year. And this was a mid-season change where no one had a training camp or pre-season games under Sutter's system. So I'm not sure I buy the argument that Huberdeau needs more time, maybe that's the case but like others have said he's barely noticeable right now and playing in a different way he has played the last ten years.

Different players can require more adjustment. Huberdeau's game was very east-west and Sutter is very north-south

None the less, Gaudreau had to go through some adjustment as well.

[FlamesAddiction]

One thing I noticed about Huberdeau in Florida is that he created a lot of chances by forcing turnovers in the offensive zone and neutral ice. Sutter teams do tend to be less aggressive in this respect. Players tend to back off quickly and start defending rather than making risky plays. Huberdeau still seems to be trying to force quick turnovers while the other players on the line have already started skating back to defend. It means that even if Huberdeau succeeds in turning the play around, there is no one there supporting him because they are a step behind.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I just checked Gaudreau's stats when Sutter took over, he had 29 points in the remaining 33 games that year. And this was a mid-season change where no one had a training camp or pre-season games under Sutter's system. So I'm not sure I buy the argument that Huberdeau needs more time, maybe that's the case but like others have said he's barely noticeable right now and playing in a different way he has played the last ten years.

I don't really think it's a great explanation either. Great players make an impact on the ice and it's disappointing that he's not doing that so far. The guy we traded for him has 34 points with a new team and new system. That's not to say I think hope is lost either, but it's certainly a disappointment so far and a potentially terrible problem for the team.

Personally, I also just view hockey as entertainment and have found Huberdeau very boring to watch so far. Wish there was a bit more inspiration in his play.

[Naitix]

As I see it the issue is that Huberdeau is trying to play a playstyle he has not played ever/in a while in Florida. Huberdeau's go to are risky east-west passes, playing fast counter-attack and as others have mentioned - takeaways in the offensive/neutral zone that result in odd man situations.

The thing is that Sutter's system is defense first which reduces likelihood of odd man rushes as forwards are further back in our own/neutral zone and back off instead of lingering in the offensive zone. Hub is clearly making a smaller number of risky plays and he is messing them up more often than before as he is probably in his head being "I do not want to mess up". Back in Florida he was able to play more or less how he wanted to and had no pressure from the fans to play safe hockey. Here any time he fails a pass people start complaining, it is just different hockey expectations.

Hub plays best with players who are fast at north-south transition as he is able to make those tight passes for odd man rushes and breakaways, I do think that he is not playing with players that utilize his skillset.

I also think that he is wayyyy better than he was at the start of the season, I am not sure why you guys are complaining so much. Last game he made 2 passes that should have resulted in easy empty net goals in the first period.

I have no doubt that Hub is going to be an 80-100+ point players again with us, but I just do not know if it will work in the current hockey structure with these types of players that we have accumulated. It is Sutter's job to get Hub to play to his potential, and if he won't, hopefully the next coach will, whenever that is.

But, I also think that Hub is one of the most competitive and professional players we had on the team in years, and I think he can find a new way to play that leads him to be successful.

Majority of you are underestimating what it means going from a run and gun style of hockey in Florida with no outside pressure, to playing under Sutter in one the most responsible defensive system in the NHL and in the market that over analyzes every mistake you make

[charcoalbg]

Originally Posted by Naitix

As I see it the issue is that Huberdeau is trying to play a playstyle he has not played ever/in a while in Florida. Huberdeau's go to are risky east-west passes, playing fast counter-attack and as others have mentioned - takeaways in the offensive/neutral zone that result in odd man situations.

The thing is that Sutter's system is defense first which reduces likelihood of odd man rushes as forwards are further back in our own/neutral zone and back off instead of lingering in the offensive zone. Hub is clearly making a smaller number of risky plays and he is messing them up more often than before as he is probably in his head being "I do not want to mess up". Back in Florida he was able to play more or less how he wanted to and had no pressure from the fans to play safe hockey. Here any time he fails a pass people start complaining, it is just different hockey expectations.

Hub plays best with players who are fast at north-south transition as he is able to make those tight passes for odd man rushes and breakaways, I do think that he is not playing with players that utilize his skillset.

I also think that he is wayyyy better than he was at the start of the season, I am not sure why you guys are complaining so much. Last game he made 2 passes that should have resulted in easy empty net goals in the first period.

I have no doubt that Hub is going to be an 80-100+ point players again with us, but I just do not know if it will work in the current hockey structure with these types of players that we have accumulated. It is Sutter's job to get Hub to play to his potential, and if he won't, hopefully the next coach will, whenever that is.

But, I also think that Hub is one of the most competitive and professional players we had on the team in years, and I think he can find a new way to play that leads him to be successful.

Majority of you are underestimating what it means going from a run and gun style of hockey in Florida with no outside pressure, to playing under Sutter in one the most responsible defensive system in the NHL and in the market that over analyzes every mistake you make

I agree with above points and in the PGT of the Montreal loss suggest he might work better with someone like Kadri / Dube who are more north south faster players and tenacious.