[PGT] Nsh 4 Flames 1

[Toonage]

^ It was his salary that landed him on waivers before Mackey

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

Didn't want to start a new thread on this and not attacking or being deceitful in any way. I think Calgary's strength is their defensive play. Would Flame fans be open to trading Hanifin and if so what would an expected return look like? Or is he one of the last guys Flames fans would be looking to move? I just assumed Andersson and Weegar would be the 2 dmen that Flames fans would want to keep first.

It is a good question, and one that has been discussed since we acquired Weegar, with several threads specific to it. But it will derail this thread to start that conversation here.

[sss1]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Weegar has been much better than any of Andersson, Hanifin, or Tanev IMO.

Leads the team in xGF% among dmen at 59.5%. He's been adjusting to the team for sure, but has still been able to perform pretty well despite that.

Andersson-Hanifin is the pairing that has struggled - 47.2% xGF is poor even when you consider they've done more of the heavy lifting against other teams top lines.

It's easy to blame the new guys but the tenured D core has been very disappointing so far.

The Flames have depth in the position but nothing is clicking right now.

I think the current weakness in defense is a big reason why the offense is also having trouble getting started.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Naitix

I just can't believe that Phillips still has not been given an opportunity to play in the top 9. He had a fantastic camp and a great start to the season with 9 points in 7 games while the team is struggling to get going. He offers great zone entries and speed and creates offence out of nothing, sounds like exactly what Flames are lacking right now. I just do not see any detriment in trying him in a top 9 role over Lucic, such treatment of prospects is terrible, you do not give any opportunity to learn and play. I feel like once they do get re-called, if they make a single give away, they will be benched the next game, unlike Lucic who can give the puck away 10 times per game and still dress in the top 9 role. This is not how you develop prospects.

Sure, Pelletier has not had a great start to the year, but the Flames players have not either. Pelletier showed last year that he deserves a shot on the team.

Just like how Scorp has mentioned, we have not had a single player since 2018 draft play for us yet, and it is not for the lack of good players.

this teams "development" process is so frustrating

you have a few players doing about as well in the ahl as one can and they impede their possibility for progress beyond the ahl more than any other nhl team because they keep the bar too impossibly high to even get a sniff . they'd rather wait on a trade to materialize than look within the organization to the team full of talented young players playing in the same facilities

phillips did as much as you could ask in camp but it still didn't lend to any extra time with the parent club , which is baffling given that Milano didn't work out

[Naitix]

Honestly the fact that Zohorna got 2 pre-season games in the top 9 a day after being picked up from waivers, while Phillips has spent 6 years in the organization and was not even give a chance to play with NHL forwards after having a fantastic camp kind of pisses me off and no doubt pisses Phillips off too

[TheIronMaiden]

Cheer for Phillips all you like, but I would hate to see him on the defensive coverage against any of the power forwards in the league.

you have to be an offensive stud if you are going to be a defensive liability, and as it stands Phillips is at the waterline offensively.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Naitix

Honestly the fact that Zohorna got 2 pre-season games in the top 9 a day after being picked up from waivers, while Phillips has spent 6 years in the organization and was not even give a chance to play with NHL forwards after having a fantastic camp kind of pisses me off and no doubt pisses Phillips off too

This. 100% this.

If I was a prospect I would want no part of the Flames organization right now.

It's not that you're not handed an opportunity, but really you're not even given the opportunity to try and impress in training camp and earn a spot.

Sent on the road games, with no NHL talent, against other teams mostly NHL rosters. And no value is given to strong AHL performances it seems.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

gaudreau laid out about 5 hits in his entire flames career . the door is open wider for diminutive forwards than it ever has been . you're not doing your due diligence as people running the org if you follow and develop a player for 6 years just to be a catch and release project . MP should have played out the camp and maybe seen a game or two, minimum . he showed the most offensive ability of any guy vying for the top 9 spot

[TheScorpion]

It's not even Phillips, who has obvious shortcomings that everyone can see (although his offensive upside is tangible and impressive).

Pelletier had an underwhelming camp. Pelletier also played exclusively in a group with guys on AHL/ECHL contracts. This guy looked like he could be a natural fit with Backlund when he was drafted — why wouldn't you give him a look there in a game that otherwise does not matter?

There is no other team in this league that promotes draft picks into the NHL at the rate the Flames have over the last five years. Every other team, from the contenders to the bottom feeders, has room to try their top young producers in NHL roles, even briefly. Why is that so difficult for the Flames?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

i would guess it's sutter telling treliving his preference (proven vets) and probably scoffing at a 5'6" player , and Treliving too hesitant to exercise his decision making power to go over the coach's head to get the young players some reps

outside of coronato it could be a dry 3 years for young talent until sutter expires

[SuperMatt18]

To me Pelletier-Backlund-Coleman is still the line that makes the most sense.

Both Tkachuk, and Mangiapane really developed and took off next to Backlund. Bennett looked at his best as an NHLer in Calgary next to Backlund.

Pelletier has also been an ELITE PKer at the AHL level and his tenacity there would be beneficial to this team as well.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

To me Pelletier-Backlund-Coleman is still the line that makes the most sense.

Both Tkachuk, and Mangiapane really developed and took off next to Backlund.

Pelletier has also been an ELITE PKer at the AHL level and his tenacity there would be beneficial to this team as well.

pelletier is the kind of player I would give a bit more run way to get his legs in the nhl (more than half of a training camp) because like you say , the fit next to Backlund just seems like a natural fit and he has the tools to be the type of player to complete that line

[TheIronMaiden]

I think that a Pelletier call up in imminent. however, I am not surprised they sent him down at first, he really did not stand out in an positive way in preseason.

Say what you will about needing a longer look, but every preseason game for a prospect is game 7 of the Stanley cup finals. If you can't make a positive impression in the most important game of your career, then you have not proven yourself trustworthy.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I think that a Pelletier call up in imminent. however, I am not surprised they sent him down at first, he really did not stand out in an positive way in preseason.

Say what you will about needing a longer look, but every preseason game for a prospect is game 7 of the Stanley cup finals. If you can't make a positive impression in the most important game of your career, then you have not proven yourself trustworthy.

To me that type of thinking is how you end up never graduating young players.

For both Phillips and Pelletier you could tell they knew the pressure was on and were gripping their sticks tight.

The effort was there from Pelletier, he just knew he had such a short leash and that mistakes would probably get him sent down to the NHL, and struggled to handle the puck.

I still thought he looked elite on the PK in the games I saw him in, but he was nervous and handling the puck like a grenade.

And in the end he was right to be nervous because these guys were given no leash.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

To me that type of thinking is how you end up never graduating young players.

For both Phillips and Pelletier you could tell they knew the pressure was on and were gripping their sticks tight.

The effort was there from Pelletier, he just knew he had such a short leash and that mistakes would probably get him sent down to the NHL, and struggled to handle the puck.

I still thought he looked elite on the PK in the games I saw him in, but he was nervous and handling the puck like a grenade.

And in the end he was right to be nervous because these guys were given no leash.

He wasn't ready of the hop, so send him down for 10 games to get his legs and then give him another look. This isn't game 72, he will get another look.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

He wasn't ready of the hop, so send him down for 10 games to get his legs and then give him another look. This isn't game 72, he will get another look.

Feels like this is said every year and then it never happens.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

He wasn't ready of the hop, so send him down for 10 games to get his legs and then give him another look. This isn't game 72, he will get another look.

I think it would have benefitted those guys to get a game with the NHLers just even to say "This is where you need to get to, this is what you're striving for"

I am not surprised that team got off to a slow start, I would bet every top guy on that team was a bit deflated after how camp went.

[DomeFoam]

Pelletier? Forget the perception of what each prospect should've been this year. Zary is miles ahead of Pelletier. I haven't watched a Wrangler game but the early numbers seem like its only continued for him from that camp he just had. I think he should be the first call up, but knowing Darryl we probably have Eakin on speed dial.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

I think Weegar should be getting Hanafin’s powerplay time. I think Weegar has more offensive upside than Hanafin.

Aren't they usually on the ice at the same time on the 2nd PP unit? Anderson is usually on the 1st unit?

[Paulie Walnuts]

The part that is annoying is it's not like any call up would be costing us games we are losing anyway so why not try something different and inject some speed and youth into the lineup.

They put too much emphasis on championships, the only relevant champions we have is Kadri and Coleman. Lucic won over 12 years ago and Lewis and Toffoli won 8 years ago.

Sutter is way too stubborn.