Let's talk about the 2022-23 lineup

[jayswin]

Here's my quick opinion on where I think this summer is going; I believe there is a slight disconnect between many fans and what I see Brad truly pulling off this summer. You see a lot of "well that's great considering where we were, he's likley done and we'll see how this group does" etc ( hell you saw fans saying that BEFORE signing Kadri)

I think fans are a little star struck by how amazing the roster looks compared to the days leading up to losing Tkachuk. Brad is looking from 30000 feet though, and isn't trying to build a "really good" or "division winning" roster. And he is NOT looking to start off with this and build up each year towards becoming a Stanley Cup Contender. He understands that he just took on two late 20's star players that are at their best in the next 1-3 seasons and has a limited window to go for it.

This roster relative to what us fans thought we'd have looks crazy. But relative to other Stanley Cup contenders? That's what Brad is attempting build this off season, and through some amazing moves, he has a chance to do it.

He ain't backing off the gas pedal until he has traded for every upgrade he can make this summer so we can contend this season. And his comments about not being done and having lots of D is telling.

We are D heavy and imo, and likely Brad's as well - short about one star forward compared to other contenders, even with Kadri. He will trade a significant defenseman for a top 6, even top line winger before the season starts. I believe Hanifin will be the best trade bait to land someone major.

[jayswin]

Huberdeau Lindholm Toffoli
Mangiapane Kadri Dube
Pelletier Backlund Coleman
Lucic Rooney Lewis
Ruzicka

Weegar Tanev
Hanifin Andersson
Kylington Zadorov
Mackey Valimaki

Markstrom
Vladar

I look at that and I change it to

Huberdeau Lindholm new star forward
Mangiapane Kadri Toffoli
Dude/Pelletier Backlund Coleman
Lucic Rooney Lewis
Ruzicka


Weegar - Andersson
Tanev - Kylington
Mackey/Stone/Valimaki - Zadorov


Markstrom
Vladar


I think Brad sees one star forward pushing others down and making three incredible lines as critical to being a contender as well.

[TheSkinner]

I was thinking the other day that if Kadri was signed wether anyone would give good value for Backlund. If Backlund was tradeable for a good asset and then the team signed Stastny as the 3rd line center, it would’ve been a tidy piece of business. With the hopes that Ruzicka or Schwindt would’ve been ready for the 3C role the following year.

Would’ve saved giving an asset to dump Monahans contract. Stastny vs Backlund as 3C would’ve been close for a year. But probably too late in the offseason to get a good return on Backlund at this point though.

Anyways… not relevant now

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TheSkinner

I was thinking the other day that if Kadri was signed wether anyone would give good value for Backlund. If Backlund was tradeable for a good asset and then the team signed Stastny as the 3rd line center, it would’ve been a tidy piece of business. With the hopes that Ruzicka or Schwindt would’ve been ready for the 3C role the following year.

Would’ve saved giving an asset to dump Monahans contract. Stastny vs Backlund as 3C would’ve been close for a year. But probably too late in the offseason to get a good return on Backlund at this point though.

Anyways… not relevant now

I think the club rightly views Backlund as an important part of any near-term success. You sign Kadri to create the centre depth.

[cral12]

Could use some better name for these lines lol...

Huberdeau Lindholm Mangiapane (Eat Bread, Drink Lime Water*)
Dube Kadri Toffoli (Snarl, Skill & Tea)
Pelletier Backlund Coleman (The Trappers)
Lucic rOooney Lewis (LOL Line)
Ruzicka

Weegar Andersson (Gnarley Duo)
Hanifin Tanev (Han-Tan, the Sequel)
Zadorov Kylington (Klingon Z)

Mackey Valimaki (The 2 Makies)

Markstrom
Vladar

*Lindholm is derived from the German word "linde" meaning lime tree
*Huberdeau - has water in there
*Pelletier = fur trapper

**Weegs - know he plays both sides - still curious what his preference is and how Sutter will prefer to utilize. Kylington preferred his right side when he was younger - would have to protect Zad-Kyl minutes but still an intriguing pair.

---
***If Kessel were to sign:

Huberdeau Lindholm Kessel (Uber Hot)
Mangiapane Kadri Toffoli (Snarl, Skill, Bread & Tea)
Dube Backlund Coleman (CBD Cures All)
Lucic rOooney Lewis (LOL Line)
Ruzicka

[kipperiggy]

Does anybody know when single game tickets go on sale for this year?

[cral12]

The Win Column's Karim breaking down Flames lineup:

Some interesting thoughts, alternatives I really haven't seen previously explored:
https://thewincolumn.ca/2022/08/22/h...h-nazem-kadri/

[TheIronMaiden]

I am really looking forward to watching Pelletier's training camp.

[djsFlames]

I'd agree that they're one big winger away from being on the level of COL, STL, CAR and the Florida teams (maybe just TBL now)

If you sign Kessel to a ~2 million contract at the very least, you'll make up some of that gap which might give them a fighting chance.

I think they need one more option at wing who is established. I think if you trade Hanifin for that player, it would need to be a very good one to justify subtracting from an elite top 4.

I do like Kylington much better with Tanev than with Zadorov, so moving Hanifin at least allows them to roll with what they know works well.

Hopefully Pelletier can also be a shot in the arm for the third line offensively as well.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I'd agree that they're one big winger away from being on the level of COL, STL, CAR and the Florida teams (maybe just TBL now)

If you sign Kessel to a ~2 million contract at the very least, you'll make up some of that gap which might give them a fighting chance.

I think they need one more option at wing who is established. I think if you trade Hanifin for that player, it would need to be a very good one to justify subtracting from an elite top 4.

I do like Kylington much better with Tanev than with Zadorov, so moving Hanifin at least allows them to roll with what they know works well.

Hopefully Pelletier can also be a shot in the arm for the third line offensively as well.

I’m just not convinced that protecting Kylington justifies either losing Hanifin or playing Tanev out of the top 4

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m just not convinced that protecting Kylington justifies either losing Hanifin or playing Tanev out of the top 4

Sutter at 5v5 tends to roll things pretty evenly - it's more about matchups than it is about ice time.

Last year it was:

Hanifin-Anderson: 15:21 TOI/GP
Kylington-Tanev: 14:25 TOI/GP
Zadorov-Gudbranson: 13:17 TOI/GP

So less than two minutes total separated all three pairings last year, and that was with less depth on defense overall.

Generally you play about 48-50 minutes at 5v5 each game, last year the Flames main d-pairs combined to average 43 minutes per game, and the other 5 minutes is pairings caught in a change or coming off a PP/PK.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the plan is to roll all three pairings quite equally.

Hanifin-Anderson: 15 minutes
Kylington-Tanev: 15 minutes
Zadorov-Weegar: 15 minutes

That probably gives Sutter three pretty even pairs that covers 45 minutes of ES TOI, and my guess is he might pretty comfortable with any of those pairs on the ice.

Weegar-Tanev is likely your starting PK pair and will get lots of ice time there, Hanifin and Andersson was our second PK unit last year and i'd be shocked if that were to change.

Weegar, Anderson, and Hanifin probably also get PP time. So your top 4 is going to make up their total TOI on special teams.

In the playoffs I could see them "loading up" a top 4, but I think he's going to want to roll everyone pretty equally in the regular season.

[FBI]

Kylington might get some more PP2 time as well this year..

[GioforPM]

^ he was forced into that distribution because Tanev had to play with Kylington. I just dislike playing top players less. I think that especially is a misuse of Weegar.

Have a look at ice times when Gio was on the team with Tanev. I suspect the top 4 were more heavily weighted.

[Jay Random]

Sutter talked a lot last year about the importance of using four lines and three defence pairings. I don't think he was forced into anything. It appears to me that his approach is to shorten the bench when needed, but not to start from the assumption that your bench is going to be short.

In '20-21, Giordano and Tanev averaged 22:57 and 21:44 respectively (total TOI; the site I'm looking at doesn't break down special-team TOI for past years). Andersson and Hanifin were just over 20 minutes. But then you have to look at the quality of the third pairing that year. The #5 D that year by total minutes played was Valimaki, with Nesterov #6. I don't see those guys breaking down the doors of any NHL locker rooms this year.

If anything, I'd say Sutter was forced to ride the top two pairs hard that year because he couldn't trust the third pairing at all.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Here's my quick opinion on where I think this summer is going; I believe there is a slight disconnect between many fans and what I see Brad truly pulling off this summer. You see a lot of "well that's great considering where we were, he's likley done and we'll see how this group does" etc ( hell you saw fans saying that BEFORE signing Kadri)

I think fans are a little star struck by how amazing the roster looks compared to the days leading up to losing Tkachuk. Brad is looking from 30000 feet though, and isn't trying to build a "really good" or "division winning" roster. And he is NOT looking to start off with this and build up each year towards becoming a Stanley Cup Contender. He understands that he just took on two late 20's star players that are at their best in the next 1-3 seasons and has a limited window to go for it.

This roster relative to what us fans thought we'd have looks crazy. But relative to other Stanley Cup contenders? That's what Brad is attempting build this off season, and through some amazing moves, he has a chance to do it.

He ain't backing off the gas pedal until he has traded for every upgrade he can make this summer so we can contend this season. And his comments about not being done and having lots of D is telling.

We are D heavy and imo, and likely Brad's as well - short about one star forward compared to other contenders, even with Kadri. He will trade a significant defenseman for a top 6, even top line winger before the season starts. I believe Hanifin will be the best trade bait to land someone major.

I get the same feeling when I look at the lineup. You potentially have three D pairings that are pretty equal. So who gets the short end of the stick for icetime?

Center is great. LW also makes sense for ice times. RW is a mess.

D for a RW or a free agent RW pickup makes some sense to me. Balances the lineup.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I get the same feeling when I look at the lineup. You potentially have three D pairings that are pretty equal. So who gets the short end of the stick for icetime?

Center is great. LW also makes sense for ice times. RW is a mess.

D for a RW or a free agent RW pickup makes some sense to me. Balances the lineup.

Absolutely, and I'm confident we will have a top 6 if not top line RW before the season starts.

[cral12]

With Phil the Thrill takin' his puck & poker talents to Vegas, we're back to:

(Could use some better name for these lines lol...)

Huberdeau Lindholm Mangiapane (Eat Bread, Drink Lime Water*)
Dube Kadri Toffoli (Snarl, Skill & Tea)
Pelletier Backlund Coleman (The Trappers)
Lucic rOooney Lewis (LOL Line)
Ruzicka

Weegar Andersson (Gnarley Duo)
Hanifin Tanev (Han-Tan, the Sequel)
Zadorov Kylington (Klingon Z)

Mackey Valimaki (The 2 Makies)

Markstrom
Vladar

*Lindholm is derived from the German word "linde" meaning lime tree
*Huberdeau - has water in there
*Pelletier = fur trapper

**Weegs - know he plays both sides - still curious what his preference is and how Sutter will prefer to utilize. Kylington preferred his right side when he was younger - would have to protect Zad-Kyl minutes but still an intriguing pair.

---
***If Evan Rodrigues (ERod) were to sign:

Huberdeau Lindholm Mangiapane
Dube Kadri Toffoli
Coleman Backlund ERod
Lucic rOoney Lewis (LOL Line)
Ruzicka

*really hope Rooney pans out, but him centering any line troubles me - always seems to be dreadful in faceoff circle...prob better suiter to the wing? But then which of Sutter's beloved LL soldiers get bumped off 4th? (and pls don't have them on the 3rd line)
I'd prefer Ruzicka on 4th line of course and even Pelletier on the 3rd, with ERod on 4th, if he can be had for a bargain.

[Roof-Daddy]

I wonder if Sprong could survive with Darryl Sutter?

Maybe he can come in on a try out?

[Roof-Daddy]

I also still wonder about Julien Gauthier.

It was reported earlier in the off season that he had requested a trade.

Makes you wonder what the asking price is from the Rangers if he hasn't been moved yet.

There is a guy that maybe gets elevated into the top 6 with Huberdeau like Duclair or Bennett did in FLA, but if he doesn't find another level he's still at least a massive physical specimen that can skate and play a role in the bottom six too.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Sutter does line-match with defence pairings. Gudbranson was very sheltered.


I think Zadorov-Kylington is a good bet to make at this point, since he can shelter that pairing, while having 4 very capable defencemen for the majority of opposing team's top 6 lines.



Zadorov does not look good trying to contain players like McDavid (well, who does really). I think you try to keep Kylington and Zadorov away from top-line players as much as possible. I can see the balanced lines working, but I also see 2 pairs that you can legitimately play against anyone, and only worry about sheltering your bottom pair which will still be very effective against bottom 6 lines.