[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames to add secondary scoring. Friedman: A lot of people think Toffoli

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

You are trading for what you think will happen in the future, not what has happened in the past. Mangiapagne came out of the gates on fire, but has cooled dramatically. Is he going to regain that early scoring touch from October and November (15 goals in 22 games), or is he going to be more like he's been of late (5 goals in 20 games)? You also have to consider what the long game is and whether he's a player you can fit into the salary structure? Can you keep all three of Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Mangiapane, or are you better off trading for two guys with term and signed for less than $4.5M so you can afford two of the three? Tough decision, but something has to give.

Mangiapane had 17 goals in 68 games in 2019-20, and 18 goals in 2020-21 in 56 games

He's a perennial 20+ goal scorer, and he's 25. He will only get better, at least for the next couple years.

He's very likely to hit 30 goals this year even with the cooldown.

Meanwhile Toffoli is about to be 30 in 2 months. You know what other player we got around that age before that just had a 25 goal season? James Neal.

You are more likely to be able to keep Gaudreau or Tkachuk + Mangiapane, then both Gaudreau and Tkachuk

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Mangiapane had 17 goals in 68 games in 2019-20, and 18 goals in 2020-21 in 56 games

He's a perennial 20+ goal scorer, and he's 25. He will only get better, at least for the next couple years.

He's very likely to hit 30 goals this year even with the cooldown.

Meanwhile Toffoli is about to be 30 in 2 months. You know what other player we got around that age before that just had a 25 goal season? James Neal.

I guess to some extent it depends on what Mangiapane is demanding for his next contract. TT is signed for 2 more years at $4.25.

[heep223]

Let's trade primary scoring for secondary scoring! That'll do the trick!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

It's very fair to assume Sutter had input on guys he knows well (Gudbranson from Anaheim, Lewis from L.A., Richardson from L.A.'s pressbox) but at the end of the day Tre IS the GM. He's allowed to have the final say. And I doubt Sutter had much aggressive input on Zadorov or Coleman, since he has no history with either. Of course I'm sure he was still consulted, judt as Bill Peters was involved with the signing of Austin Czarnik.

Just as with Nik Grossman though, a GM can't let the coach decide the roster. Gulutzan's emotional manipulation of the roster over Grossman being waived was a low point in Tre's career BECAUSE grossman should never have been signed regardless of Gulutzan's advocacy.

Sutter can't be building the roster, and Treliving can't be setting the lines (which was a rumour towards the end of Geoff Ward's tenure). That boundary should be discrete.

Of course they're working together.

But you don't see the humour in Treliving getting hammered for signing Gudbranson in August, but now it's on Sutter's shoulders because he's doing well?

I said all along it was a Sutter influenced signing, and never gave credit or blame to anyone.

[djsFlames]

Tofolli at 4.25 until 32 is pretty palatable IMO. And maybe you can get some of that knocked off for an added pick.

He was a top competitor on a SCF Habs team, and is the top competitor on a lottery Habs team.

Has history with Darryl and has played with Monahan.

Its like he was destined to play in our middle six for a couple playoff runs under Sutter.

[Sandman]

I said it in the other thread, IMO Dvorak is quite overrated.

[Owen15]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

But a 9 year old would have plenty of hockey ahead of him. Sure it's going a weee bit pre-mature, but I'd still say it's a good managing of assets.

I’d need some advanced stats to opine.

[Strange Brew]

Of course Treliving is the GM and responsible for personnel decisions. Now if he is changing who gets he advice from and it’s working better, then all the more credit to him.

If the owners are over controlling and having too much input on hockey decisions then that’s another story. I’d want to know what BT wanted to do and what they wouldn’t allow him to do.

[Reggie Dunlop]

The player(s) most talked about (or hoped for) going to Calgary often don't.

It's fun to speculate though.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, this seems like more of a death knell to me.

Probably more just my pessimism rearing it's ugly head due to the Flames continually missing out on every player I've wanted them to get for several years now.

ROR
Trochek
Kadri
Stone
Eichel

There's probably more

[Heavy Jack]

^^^ you can add Panarin to that list, extremely painful too because it’s another one of those ‘I was down to two teams’ scenarios again. Maddening really lol.

[Jetfire]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Tofolli at 4.25 until 32 is pretty palatable IMO. And maybe you can get some of that knocked off for an added pick.

He was a top competitor on a SCF Habs team, and is the top competitor on a lottery Habs team.

Has history with Darryl and has played with Monahan.

Its like he was destined to play in our middle six for a couple playoff runs under Sutter.

Right? Like I get the concern people are mentioning with a 30 year old Toffoli, but Neal was a coaster on his way out the door, masked by the fact he could still put the puck in the net for part of his Vegas season.

Toffoli has already been proven as a player that works in Darryl's systems so surely Toffoli knows the work he needs to put in, plus he's probably begging for a change of scenery after the disaster of a season Montreal's had. I see it as a pretty low-risk acquisition, especially because the player was legitimately good literally just a few months ago too.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

^^^ you can add Panarin to that list, extremely painful too because it’s another one of those ‘I was down to two teams’ scenarios again. Maddening really lol.

Add Fleury + Bishop

[btimbit]

I'd gladly pay quite a bit extra to get Montreal to retain salary. Love Toffoli but keeping Tkachuk and Gaudreau needs to be priority and need the space to do it

[Firebot]

Yeah we are not trading Mangiapane.

[Dude Where's Makar?]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'd gladly pay quite a bit extra to get Montreal to retain salary. Love Toffoli but keeping Tkachuk and Gaudreau needs to be priority and need the space to do it

Could you imagine getting him at 2.125! That would be unreal for this team the next two seasons. Mind you, it would cost a lot!

[djsFlames]

I'd be willing to do our late 1st + Gawdin/Francis, or someting equivalent for Toffoli 25% retained.

Is that low balling? If so, tack on a 5th (since we only score on 4th and 6th round picks).

[Classic_Sniper]

If Toffoli is indeed the prime target, than a significant portion of his contract will likely need to be retained and Dube and his salary is likely going to have to be included. It’s the only way it makes sense without potentially putting Gaudreau’s future here at risk (i.e. the Pietrangelo/Faulk situation).

[djsFlames]

Actually a Dube swap makes sense.

Meets their French surname requirement also.

[FanIn80]

Not sure what the trade would be, but this top 6 would go a loooong way towards easing my mind about any playoff matchups against COL, VGK or TBL.

Gaudreau Lindholm Tkachuk
Mangiapane Monahan Toffoli