Tell me about San Francisco

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

Nah....if there is an immutable law of social dynamics its that 'Rich People Dont Fight.'

They pay poor people to do it for them.

I mean, there is just so much quality TV streaming right now, its just hard to get off the couch to precipitate a race war.

[activeStick]

Asian families are being targeted in home invasions. The embedded video of the punks putting a gun to the head of the grandpa enrages me.

Approximately 50 home invasion robberies have targeted elderly Asian families in the Oakland Hills, and they may be connected to a small group of criminals, according to law enforcement sources. The I-Team's Dan Noyes has obtained internal police memos that we can't show to protect the sources, and that information has helped us track down some of the victims.

This is one of the home invasions listed in police documents obtained by the I-Team: On Monday, an 80-year-old man and his 69-year-old wife were caring for their two grandchildren when robbers broke into a second-floor window.

https://abc7news.com/home-robberies-...bbed/13600750/

[activeStick]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1688727808988598272

[soreshins]

So just back from SF after a long weekend break with some friends. Thanks to this board for the UberXL tip for airport travel - worked out great.

Anyway, it had been over 10 years since I was in SF and the couple we were with had never been there before. I was expecting a bit of a war zone based on the news stories - but it was the opposite.

Now, bear in mind that we were doing the standard tourist trip - cable cars, Alcatraz, Giants game etc - so we didn’t walk through the Tenderloin at midnight - but the parts of the City that we saw were very clean, and I probably saw about a dozen homeless folks in total over 4 days. That’s not an exaggeration. Our friends loved it

Obviously the City has massive problems - but for tourists I couldn’t fault it and we would definitely go back.

Very expensive though!!!

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Matata

You feel uncomfortable discussing the matter on a message board because you haven't written a white paper on it? Seeing as this situation or something similar seems to be on the horizon for Calgary and every other major city, there is ample motivation to start educating oneself on the matter.

All I'm looking for is an opinion that lies somewhere between "the city is doomed" and "the city is fine" and so far I'm coming up with nothing.

It's capitalism, baby. The invisible hand. There's no use in looking at things like rent control, affordable housing, public health care, mental health resources, UBI as more jobs become outsourced/replaced, or just the general idea that healthy happy people = healthy happy economy. That stuff is all socialist nonsense.

This is literally the design of capitalism. Things that don't work are left to fail. Except banks. Or fossil fuels. Or automakers.

It works in theory. Things that die are replaced by better things. But part of that theory is reinvesting corporate profits into the labour force, which has basically never happened, and the only way to make happen is strikes. It's not an accident we are seeing a bunch of those. There are a lot of people that live in these cities, working good and well-paid jobs, but are still getting squeezed out. Adjustments need to be made if the employers won't make them themselves.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by soreshins

So just back from SF after a long weekend break with some friends. Thanks to this board for the UberXL tip for airport travel - worked out great.

Anyway, it had been over 10 years since I was in SF and the couple we were with had never been there before. I was expecting a bit of a war zone based on the news stories - but it was the opposite.

Now, bear in mind that we were doing the standard tourist trip - cable cars, Alcatraz, Giants game etc - so we didn’t walk through the Tenderloin at midnight - but the parts of the City that we saw were very clean, and I probably saw about a dozen homeless folks in total over 4 days. That’s not an exaggeration. Our friends loved it

Obviously the City has massive problems - but for tourists I couldn’t fault it and we would definitely go back.

Very expensive though!!!

Glad you got to go to a Giants game. A really incredible park to watch a game in with some great views.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Coach

It's capitalism, baby. The invisible hand. There's no use in looking at things like rent control, affordable housing, public health care, mental health resources, UBI as more jobs become outsourced/replaced, or just the general idea that healthy happy people = healthy happy economy. That stuff is all socialist nonsense.

This is literally the design of capitalism. Things that don't work are left to fail. Except banks. Or fossil fuels. Or automakers.

It works in theory. Things that die are replaced by better things. But part of that theory is reinvesting corporate profits into the labour force, which has basically never happened, and the only way to make happen is strikes. It's not an accident we are seeing a bunch of those. There are a lot of people that live in these cities, working good and well-paid jobs, but are still getting squeezed out. Adjustments need to be made if the employers won't make them themselves.

How to fix SF:
1. Abolish Capitalism
2. Hope the government sorts it all out. Not their current government, obviously, try and imagine a future, perfect government. They got it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Coach

It's capitalism, baby. The invisible hand. There's no use in looking at things like rent control, affordable housing, public health care, mental health resources, UBI as more jobs become outsourced/replaced, or just the general idea that healthy happy people = healthy happy economy. That stuff is all socialist nonsense.

This is literally the design of capitalism. Things that don't work are left to fail. Except banks. Or fossil fuels. Or automakers.

It works in theory. Things that die are replaced by better things. But part of that theory is reinvesting corporate profits into the labour force, which has basically never happened, and the only way to make happen is strikes. It's not an accident we are seeing a bunch of those. There are a lot of people that live in these cities, working good and well-paid jobs, but are still getting squeezed out. Adjustments need to be made if the employers won't make them themselves.

The biggest challenge economies are facing is the lack of access to capital by the vast majority of people. The issues have just as much to do with red tape, lack of social mobility, lack of new housing supply, etc.. as they do with large corporations.

If you go in with a totally anti-capitalist approach, you're just going to further strangle small business and concentrate wealth in fewer hands. We should be looking at encouraging entrepreneurship and competition, not strangling it.

SF is probably the most socialist major city in the USA.

[soreshins]

Another thing that was pretty cool to see, if slightly disconcerting, were the Waymo and Cruise self-driving cars. Weird to see them driving around a crowded downtown with absolutely no-one inside. It’s still a limited trial but has just been approved for expansion. Not sure how I feel about it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66478070.amp

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Matata

How to fix SF:
1. Abolish Capitalism
2. Hope the government sorts it all out. Not their current government, obviously, try and imagine a future, perfect government. They got it.

Hey, I'm all for #1.

But my point was actually that if capitalism was really being followed, it might actually work. Because large businesses would invest in their labour instead of racing to the bottom, and more people would have disposable income and be able to afford homes. In true capitalism, driving for Amazon should be the best f***ing delivery job there is, so as to attract the best drivers.

But soon the best drivers will be robots. And they'll be the best of a lot of things. So what are we going to do then? Just let more and more people squaller while the kings of Bezosland and Muskovia just get more and more until no one can afford their crap. And then what?

UBI is going to be a necessity really fast IMO.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by soreshins

So just back from SF after a long weekend break with some friends. Thanks to this board for the UberXL tip for airport travel - worked out great.

Anyway, it had been over 10 years since I was in SF and the couple we were with had never been there before. I was expecting a bit of a war zone based on the news stories - but it was the opposite.

Now, bear in mind that we were doing the standard tourist trip - cable cars, Alcatraz, Giants game etc - so we didn’t walk through the Tenderloin at midnight - but the parts of the City that we saw were very clean, and I probably saw about a dozen homeless folks in total over 4 days. That’s not an exaggeration. Our friends loved it

Obviously the City has massive problems - but for tourists I couldn’t fault it and we would definitely go back.

Very expensive though!!!

I wonder if this is a situation where the bad press actually makes the experience better for those who do go. There are definitely less tourists going to SF, and accommodation prices are down (I sell SF accom). Basically everywhere else is up materially since pre-pandemic, SF is flat/down.

[Bill Bumface]

I wonder if part of it is that SF was so damn expensive to visit for so long, that people just assume it still is and don't bother looking. Good to hear it's actually reasonable to visit again!

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I wonder if part of it is that SF was so damn expensive to visit for so long, that people just assume it still is and don't bother looking. Good to hear it's actually reasonable to visit again!

Accommodations were inexpensive when we went in May, but everything else was super expensive.

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I wonder if this is a situation where the bad press actually makes the experience better for those who do go. There are definitely less tourists going to SF, and accommodation prices are down (I sell SF accom). Basically everywhere else is up materially since pre-pandemic, SF is flat/down.

I think yes and no for the press. I think there's awareness, but it doesn't actually do anything for hiding the issue.

The areas that don't want riff raff, a good job is done to keep that stuff away from the nicer areas. I agree with soreshins that you rarely saw homeless people in the touristy and higher end areas and if there were any there, they were pretty good at flying under the radar (I watched quite a few people who had freshened up hide their bags in the bushes before entering the union square area). I assume the isolation of this type of thing to a defined area is likely due to a combination of security, policing, outreach etc. Tourists don't go to those areas, they aren't even aware of it at all.

[Jiri Hrdina]

BTW the under-rated gem of SF Is the penny arcade down in Fisherman's Warf. Spent hours in there.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

BTW the under-rated gem of SF Is the penny arcade down in Fisherman's Warf. Spent hours in there.

Agreed. Do that and then head over to Humphry Slocombe in the ferry building for one of the best scoops of ice cream you'll ever eat.

My favorites include:

Secret Breakfast
Vietnamese Coffee
Cherry Elderflower
and good ol' Tahitian Vanilla

They seemed to have stopped making Jesus Juice, named in honor of what the weirdo Michael Jackson would give to kids visiting his complex. A mixture of red wine and cola in a sherbert. It's actually delicious.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Coach

Hey, I'm all for #1.

But my point was actually that if capitalism was really being followed, it might actually work. Because large businesses would invest in their labour instead of racing to the bottom, and more people would have disposable income and be able to afford homes. In true capitalism, driving for Amazon should be the best f***ing delivery job there is, so as to attract the best drivers.

But soon the best drivers will be robots. And they'll be the best of a lot of things. So what are we going to do then? Just let more and more people squaller while the kings of Bezosland and Muskovia just get more and more until no one can afford their crap. And then what?

UBI is going to be a necessity really fast IMO.

Driverless cars are currently operating full Time in San Francisco now. Cruise and Waymo each have vehicles so the future is now.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Agreed. Do that and then head over to Humphry Slocombe in the ferry building for one of the best scoops of ice cream you'll ever eat.

My favorites include:

Secret Breakfast
Vietnamese Coffee
Cherry Elderflower
and good ol' Tahitian Vanilla

They seemed to have stopped making Jesus Juice, named in honor of what the weirdo Michael Jackson would give to kids visiting his complex. A mixture of red wine and cola in a sherbert. It's actually delicious.

Blue Bottle for coffee and Hog Island for oysters while you’re there.

Ferry building has a lot of gems.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Glad you got to go to a Giants game. A really incredible park to watch a game in with some great views.

Oracle Park is incredible enough, but the fact that if it opened in 2023 you'd call it a unique and modern looking new stadium, despite it opening 23 years ago, is really impressive.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

BTW the under-rated gem of SF Is the penny arcade down in Fisherman's Warf. Spent hours in there.

Massive history in that place, not hard to spend a lot of time there, how about that creepy laughing women?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Massive history in that place, not hard to spend a lot of time there, how about that creepy laughing women?

There's a lot of creepy stuff.
I also thought some of it was fascinating when you thought about the politics of the time, such as the prohibition era. Or there was one where you put in a coin and it played a little scene warning of the dangers of opium dens.

I think I was literally in there for 3 hours. I love stuff like that. And the fact that it was mostly all functional is amazing.