[News] Lucic has agreed to waive his NMC for the expansion draft

[Sandman]

If we somehow were to aquire a D-man of similar age or younger, with a similar skillset, who was more fleet of foot, then Andersson would be expendable. As of right now though, with so many questions coming up about the roster, I'd be concerned about losing him.

Management needs to think about upgrading team speed this off-season, though, and Andersson isn't a burner by any means.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by jayswin

1) NTC doesn't mean anything for the expansion draft, you're thinking of a NMC
2) There is zero reason to do anything for optics, we need to be 100 times smart than that and not protect a declining asset
3) I sure hope Sutter doesn't like him enough to have a say in protecting forcing us to lose Andersson, Tanev or Hanifin.

1) Yes I realise that, I was just pointing out on trading him for picks before the expansion draft won't happen without his blessing.
2) When ever was a captain traded for for picks before the last year of his contract?
3) I never once said we should loose Andersson, Tanev or Hanifin over Gio, we should and most likely will protect them 100%, I just stated that Sutter likes him(which does mean a lot) and I'm sure there will be a deal to ensure we keep him. I just hope the cost isn't high

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Sandman

If we somehow were to aquire a D-man of similar age or younger, with a similar skillset, who was more fleet of foot, then Andersson would be expendable. As of right now though, with so many questions coming up about the roster, I'd be concerned about losing him.

Management needs to think about upgrading team speed this off-season, though, and Andersson isn't a burner by any means.

What? I'll give you Hanifin as a better skater on this team but Andersson has great wheels and isn't that far behind. Besides, if a speedy D was the most important thing Kylington would be on the top pairing.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

1) Yes I realise that, I was just pointing out on trading him for picks before the expansion draft won't happen without his blessing.
2) When ever was a captain traded for for picks before the last year of his contract?
3) I never once said we should loose Andersson, Tanev or Hanifin over Gio, we should and most likely will protect them 100%, I just stated that Sutter likes him(which does mean a lot) and I'm sure there will be a deal to ensure we keep him. I just hope the cost isn't high

Plenty of teams trade their captains... but most frequently during the final years of their contracts.

Let's take a look at all 31 teams' previous captains to see who was traded.

ANA — Niedermayer retired.
ARI — Doan retired.
BOS — Chara was not retained as a free agent.
BUF — Gionta was not retained as a free agent.
CGY — Iginla was traded during the final year of his contract.
CAR — Faulk was traded prior to the final year of his contract. Williams was then captain for one season before retiring (the first time).
CHI — Aucoin was traded prior to the third year of a four-year contract.
COL — Hejduk retired.
CBJ — Foligno was traded during the final year of his contract.
DAL — Morrow was traded during the final year of his contract.
DET — Zetterberg retired.
EDM — Ference retired.
FLA — MacKenzie retired.
LAK — Brown was stripped of the captaincy. Remains with the team.
MIN — Koivu was not retained as a free agent.
MTL — Pacioretty was traded prior to the final year of his contract.
NSH — Fisher retired (the first time).
NJD — Greene was traded during the final year of his contract.
NYI — Tavares was not retained as a free agent.
NYR — McDonagh was traded during the second-last year of his contract.
OTT — Karlsson was traded prior to the final year of his contract.
PHI — Pronger retired.
PIT — Lemieux retired.
SJS — Pavelski was not retained as a free agent.
STL — Pietrangelo was not retained as a free agent.
TBL — St. Louis was traded during the second-last year of his contract.
TOR — Phaneuf was traded during the third year of a seven-year contract.
VAN — Sedin retired.
VGK — No captain prior to Stone.
WSH — Clark was traded during the second-last year of his contract.
WPG — Ladd was traded during the final year of his contract.

I thought this was some interesting information. If the Flames were to trade Giordano this summer, it would be similar to the situations with Karlsson, Faulk, and Pacioretty.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

What? I'll give you Hanifin as a better skater on this team but Andersson has great wheels and isn't that far behind. Besides, if a speedy D was the most important thing Kylington would be on the top pairing.

Andersson's skating was one of the reasons he was taken at 53. Some scouts said his skating looked "heavy". He's improved over the years as his fitness level has improved, and while he's agile, and quick when he needs to be, he's no burner-not in the class of a Hanifin or Kylington,or even a Valimaki. There's several players on the team faster than him. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Andersson fan, and I want to keep him.

And the reason Kylington is not on the top pair has nothing to do with speed, it has to do with other attributes important to being an NHL defenseman-decision making, and play in the defensive zone.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

That is why you potentially pay something small for them not to take him. If the Flames paid a 3rd people would freak out...until the day they trade him for a 1st

Which is why something small would not be enough incentive for Seattle not to pick Gio if that is who they really wanted.


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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Since1984

I'd assume 2nd to 4th round pick and a prospect. Any team that wants to make a run in the playoffs would love Gio as a top 4 defenceman.

He would have brought in a 1st easily. He decreasing skills are heavily exaggerated on CP.

He has certainly gotten worse, but he’s still an important part of the team.


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[TheoFleury]

Jesus. Just protect Lucic lol. What a bad job BT has done looking at our 7F slot. Pretty embarrassing for 7 years on the job actually. There's no way another team gives BT another chance at GM after Calgary, just my opinion. Literally completely incapable of stockpiling and managing assets.

It looks even worse when you consider he inherited Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Brodie, Ferland, Backlund and Giordano (all good - great assets at various points. Only one he actually got right managing was Ferland) as well as a full slate of picks for his first 3 years. He's only added Tkachuk (thanks to being bad) Lindholm (Hamilton has more trade value currently imo), Dube (good teams wouldn't protect a guy like this), Mangiapane (also should be waiver fodder at this point in the game if the team had been run competently the last 7 years... but there's literally zero depth in this organization)... Matthew Phillips lol Gawdin lol lol Whoever the next heartbeat in line is lol lol lol

Andersson (good find but overrated around these parts), Hanifin (also overrated. Both he and Andersson are decent 3/4s at best)... Tanev (good player atm I guess but wasted on a middling team, would be a good peice for a contender)... valimaki (yeah BT, I think thought he was a future 1D or something but nope, not happening, probably another andersson at best. Actually not great value for a mid first, fair value but should not have been viewed as untouchable at any point)

markstrom (2 good years and everyone loses their minds including many who would previously admit goalies are voodoo but now he wears red so.... Decent goalie for sure, but not one I would spend 36m on, especially ages 31-37 or whatever, it's not a smart bet at all but I guess Brad needs to learn this lesson like 6 or 7 times in the ufa market... someone tell Brad nhl players generally go downhill after 30, I think he missed the memo lol. There are probably only 4 or 5 goalies in the NHL actually worth 6m+ and markstrom isn't one of them unless it was a 3 year deal, 6 years was just stupid, sorry BT supporters)

Losing nothing of value in an expansion draft just indicates your team is bad. There's only 4 forwards even worth protecting here after 7 years. A good team would be like "whew, at least we only lost Dube" BT is like "look at me, I'm protecting 2 tweeners and a ahl player, haha Seattle is going to have to take a bad player"

Burn it down, get a new architect already, the organization is a mess top to bottom. There is nothing special in the system and 3 of of top 4 forwards need contracts in 2 years or less. Gio is done. Hanifin-Andersson will never be a contender's top pairing. Tanev looks good today but ya, wasted on a bubble team. The farm has a bunch of average at best, mostly smallish dudes all over the place. Seriously wtf has Brad been doing the last 7 years?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Jesus. Just protect Lucic lol. What a bad job BT has done looking at our 7F slot. Pretty embarrassing for 7 years on the job actually. There's no way another team gives BT another chance at GM after Calgary, just my opinion. Literally completely incapable of stockpiling and managing assets.

It looks even worse when you consider he inherited Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Brodie, Ferland, Backlund and Giordano (all good - great assets at various points. Only one he actually got right managing was Ferland) as well as a full slate of picks for his first 3 years. He's only added Tkachuk (thanks to being bad) Lindholm (Hamilton has more trade value currently imo), Dube (good teams wouldn't protect a guy like this), Mangiapane (also should be waiver fodder at this point in the game if the team had been run competently the last 7 years... but there's literally zero depth in this organization)... Matthew Phillips lol Gawdin lol lol Whoever the next heartbeat in line is lol lol lol

Andersson (good find but overrated around these parts), Hanifin (also overrated. Both he and Andersson are decent 3/4s at best)... Tanev (good player atm I guess but wasted on a middling team, would be a good peice for a contender)... valimaki (yeah BT, I think thought he was a future 1D or something but nope, not happening, probably another andersson at best. Actually not great value for a mid first, fair value but should not have been viewed as untouchable at any point)

markstrom (2 good years and everyone loses their minds including many who would previously admit goalies are voodoo but now he wears red so.... Decent goalie for sure, but not one I would spend 36m on, especially ages 31-37 or whatever, it's not a smart bet at all but I guess Brad needs to learn this lesson like 6 or 7 times in the ufa market... someone tell Brad nhl players generally go downhill after 30, I think he missed the memo lol. There are probably only 4 or 5 goalies in the NHL actually worth 6m+ and markstrom isn't one of them unless it was a 3 year deal, 6 years was just stupid, sorry BT supporters)

Losing nothing of value in an expansion draft just indicates your team is bad. There's only 4 forwards even worth protecting here after 7 years. A good team would be like "whew, at least we only lost Dube" BT is like "look at me, I'm protecting 2 tweeners and a ahl player, haha Seattle is going to have to take a bad player"

Burn it down, get a new architect already, the organization is a mess top to bottom. There is nothing special in the system and 3 of of top 4 forwards need contracts in 2 years or less. Gio is done. Hanifin-Andersson will never be a contender's top pairing. Tanev looks good today but ya, wasted on a bubble team. The farm has a bunch of average at best, mostly smallish dudes all over the place. Seriously wtf has Brad been doing the last 7 years?

So, to summarize, even though Calgary has zero pieces of actual talent, it is still a bubble team?

You have actually made a few decent points, but your post is so full of hate and misconceptions, that it will be largely ridiculed and ignored.

Which, I guess as a troll, that is your intention.


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[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So, to summarize, even though Calgary has zero pieces of actual talent, it is still a bubble team?

You have actually made a few decent points, but your post is so full of hate and misconceptions, that it will be largely ridiculed and ignored.

Which, I guess as a troll, that is your intention.


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Lol reading comprehension not your thing I guess? I never said they had zero peices of talent. I asserted that the amount of talent on the roster is substandard when considering how much time he's has to assemble a talented group. Hopefully that clears up your confusion

If you feel that's trolling I would suggest you have thin skin and don't like when your favorite pajamas are criticized.

What misconceptions? Do you know what an opinion is lol

[GioforPM]

So Treliving inherited but “mismanaged” Gio, Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Brodie, Bennett, and Ferland. If by “mismanaged” you mean “didn’t trade away”, OK, I guess, except no one wanted that. But other than that, how were they mismanaged? By Gio, Gaudreau and Monahan being signed to good value contracts way cheaper than everyone predicted?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!

What a terrible post. Treliving inherited Bennett? Dube is not worth protecting? Mangiapane is waiver fodder? Only six NHL goalies are worth $6 m?

Good lord. So much nonsense.

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[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What a terrible post. Treliving inherited Bennett? Dube is not worth protecting? Mangiapane is waiver fodder? Only six NHL goalies are worth $6 m?

Good lord. So much nonsense.

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If he threw in some anti-Trudeau and anti-lockdown/vaccine stuff, it could have been written by the actual Theo Fleury.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What a terrible post. Treliving inherited Bennett? Dube is not worth protecting? Mangiapane is waiver fodder? Only six NHL goalies are worth $6 m?

Good lord. So much nonsense.

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See also “losing nothing in an expansion draft means your team is bad”. Last time, the Bruins lost Colin Miller, and didn’t have to do a deal to get there. Ditto, Avs (Pickard), Leafs (Leipsic), Sharks (Schlemko), Stars (Eakin), Rangers (Lindberg)....

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Jesus. Just protect Lucic lol. What a bad job BT has done looking at our 7F slot. Pretty embarrassing for 7 years on the job actually. There's no way another team gives BT another chance at GM after Calgary, just my opinion. Literally completely incapable of stockpiling and managing assets.

It looks even worse when you consider he inherited Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Brodie, Ferland, Backlund and Giordano (all good - great assets at various points. Only one he actually got right managing was Ferland) as well as a full slate of picks for his first 3 years. He's only added Tkachuk (thanks to being bad) Lindholm (Hamilton has more trade value currently imo), Dube (good teams wouldn't protect a guy like this), Mangiapane (also should be waiver fodder at this point in the game if the team had been run competently the last 7 years... but there's literally zero depth in this organization)... Matthew Phillips lol Gawdin lol lol Whoever the next heartbeat in line is lol lol lol

Andersson (good find but overrated around these parts), Hanifin (also overrated. Both he and Andersson are decent 3/4s at best)... Tanev (good player atm I guess but wasted on a middling team, would be a good peice for a contender)... valimaki (yeah BT, I think thought he was a future 1D or something but nope, not happening, probably another andersson at best. Actually not great value for a mid first, fair value but should not have been viewed as untouchable at any point)

markstrom (2 good years and everyone loses their minds including many who would previously admit goalies are voodoo but now he wears red so.... Decent goalie for sure, but not one I would spend 36m on, especially ages 31-37 or whatever, it's not a smart bet at all but I guess Brad needs to learn this lesson like 6 or 7 times in the ufa market... someone tell Brad nhl players generally go downhill after 30, I think he missed the memo lol. There are probably only 4 or 5 goalies in the NHL actually worth 6m+ and markstrom isn't one of them unless it was a 3 year deal, 6 years was just stupid, sorry BT supporters)

Losing nothing of value in an expansion draft just indicates your team is bad. There's only 4 forwards even worth protecting here after 7 years. A good team would be like "whew, at least we only lost Dube" BT is like "look at me, I'm protecting 2 tweeners and a ahl player, haha Seattle is going to have to take a bad player"

Burn it down, get a new architect already, the organization is a mess top to bottom. There is nothing special in the system and 3 of of top 4 forwards need contracts in 2 years or less. Gio is done. Hanifin-Andersson will never be a contender's top pairing. Tanev looks good today but ya, wasted on a bubble team. The farm has a bunch of average at best, mostly smallish dudes all over the place. Seriously wtf has Brad been doing the last 7 years?

This team has enough issues, and Treliving has performed poorly enough that we don't need to reach for things to hate/blame.

Andersson and Hanifin being paid what they are being paid is good for "3/4s". Finding Andersson in the 2nd round is a hell of a pick, and it's a win for the development side of the organization as well as he came in with "warts" and they hammered them out over time.

Valimaki hasn't had a great season, but he was also a 17th overall pick - if your expectations are that he's going to be a Chris Pronger, it's your expectations that are off. Even with his down year, this pick still looks very solid.

Mangiapane should be waiver wire if this team were competently run? That's just about the dumbest thing I've read this season. Go look at this guy's underlying numbers and production at even strength - not to mention the eye test. Work ethic and aggressiveness are fantastic. What an absolute steal of a pick. He's a top-six forward on almost every team in this league.

Good teams wouldn't protect Dillon Dube? A 2nd year NHL'er who has improved on his rookie season under less than ideal circumstances and also put up a solid 5 points in 10 playoff games while playing on the 3rd line. Yeah, you are wrong.

The Markstrom contract may very well be a valid point of criticism, alongside almost all of his other free agent work during his time here. Chris Tanev has had a very strong bounce back season, but I wouldn't count on that going forward either. I believe Markstrom will be better next year, and Tanev will be worse. I do understand the Markstrom signing though, as $6M is not an out of this world salary for a starting goalie and he hasn't had a starting goalie on this team in 7 years (another worthwhile point of criticism).

The roster is bad, so you really don't need to reach the way you did in your post to criticize it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Major Major

That seems low considering savard got a 1st and 3rd. Gio currently is several leagues above what savard is. On pace for 15 goals and 40 points.

Disagree. Savard is a big, mobile, shut-down dman. Comparable to Tanev, but with more of an edge. Very underrated.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Disagree. Savard is a big, mobile, shut-down dman. Comparable to Tanev, but with more of an edge. Very underrated.

Meh, depends on need. Savard has been steadily regressing in effectiveness and role in Columbus. He was not having a good year. In terms of overall effectiveness at both ends and transition, Gio is still by far the better player. 29 dmen in the league are outscoring him (t-7 in goals) and he looks better defensively since Sutter took over.

Do you not think Gio would have returned a first had he been on an expiring deal this year?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Meh, depends on need. Savard has been steadily regressing in effectiveness and role in Columbus. He was not having a good year. In terms of overall effectiveness at both ends and transition, Gio is still by far the better player. 29 dmen in the league are outscoring him (t-7 in goals) and he looks better defensively since Sutter took over.

Do you not think Gio would have returned a first had he been on an expiring deal this year?

Don't underestimate the value of RHS. And that he was the best D available by a fair margin.

Even Gio with double retention might have been too much to fit into TBL cap?

Next year there could be some pretty big guys available at TDL:

Subban
Letang?
Ristolainen
Seth Jones?
H Lindholm
Klingberg?
Manson
C Miller
Ekholm

Supply v. Demand...

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Don't underestimate the value of RHS. And that he was the best D available by a fair margin.

Even Gio with double retention might have been too much to fit into TBL cap?

Next year there could be some pretty big guys available at TDL:

Subban
Letang?
Ristolainen
Seth Jones?
H Lindholm
Klingberg?
Manson
C Miller
Ekholm

Supply v. Demand...

Fair point but those lists are always misleading a year away from deadline with an off-season in between. Some will be traded, some will be on playoff teams then you get the two or three Gio would be in competition with.

I agree there is lots of uncertainty on what Gio could return or what the flames will be next year, but at a low enough price, I roll the dice. The risk/reward is absolutely worth it, especially if there's no better way to spend the money, which I really don't think there is.

[dino7c]

Soon to be UFA Hamilton does not have more value than Lindholm/Hanafin signed to good deals. Didn't want to quote that 1000 word essay.

Hamilton is going to get 8M+