Adam Fox & the NCAA "Loophole?"

[The Yen Man]

I disagree Flames got burnt. Yes, it sucks that Fox is turning into a good player, but what are the chances anothervplayer picked in the third round eventually turns out to help you net a top line forward and a top 4 dman (whom I still argue can get to to two still)

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I know I've brought this up before, but the reason you can't compare them is there's more incentive to do it for College players. For the most part, they love the college lifestyle. They get to stay there longer, finish their education, and the cherry on top is they're a UFA at the end of it all.

Whereas the CHL sucks to play in, players wanna get out of there and play pro asap. If they want to be a UFA, they truly have to sacrifice for it

But that's their choice to do that.

Kids good enough to play in the CHL can get a full ride scholarship if they wanted to, especially the kids we are talking about.

Players choose the CHL because they think they that's their best path to the NHL...and they want to focus on hockey and not be a student athlete.

It cuts both ways too: Cole Peretti was a Michigan verbal, got drafted by the OHL and rescinded his commitment. Owen Power, same year, stuck with his verbal and is currently playing for Michigan

Kids growing up in the US have an affinity for the college experience, whereas Canadian kids know more about the CHL

[Sylvanfan]

If the NCAA relaxed eligibility to let signed players still play in college, maybe it would change things. But the main difference still is for a lot of junior guys after 2 years they have to find a place to play some could stay as an overage for a third if they're not signed. NCAA guys always have 3 or 4 years where they have a place to play.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

If the NCAA relaxed eligibility to let signed players still play in college, maybe it would change things. But the main difference still is for a lot of junior guys after 2 years they have to find a place to play some could stay as an overage for a third if they're not signed. NCAA guys always have 3 or 4 years where they have a place to play.

the NCAA will never abandon its flawed 'amateurism' model...

Change in this case would be best solved by eliminating the 18 yr old draft and moving to a 19 yr old draft.

Or the NCAA allowing kids who haven't signed with a team or agent the ability to play as 20 year old if they re-enter the draft after the first 2 year window closes and they want to move from the OHL to the NCAA.

the latter solution would probably increase the chances for kids to roll the dice on going UFA however, if they have already let their first signing window lapse

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

the NCAA will never abandon its flawed 'amateurism' model...

Change in this case would be best solved by eliminating the 18 yr old draft and moving to a 19 yr old draft.

Or the NCAA allowing kids who haven't signed with a team or agent the ability to play as 20 year old if they re-enter the draft after the first 2 year window closes and they want to move from the OHL to the NCAA.

the latter solution would probably increase the chances for kids to roll the dice on going UFA however, if they have already let their first signing window lapse

Ken Linseman already forced the NHL's hand on drafting 18 year olds. So that's not changing, not without a court case.

The NCAA is realizing that they can't stop players from promoting themselves to make money. Especially with media what it is now. Once that opens this could be next.

[Steve Bozek]

Since we’re dreaming here, why not make their 1st year after leaving NCAA hockey an RFA year - if they sign with another team, that team has to give up a draft pick - either the round where the player was drafted, or a first or second rounder if they won, or were a finalist for, a Hobie Baker or similar award, in their last NCAA year.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

The college rule is the same as any other rule. If a player is drafted out of junior and doesn't want to sign before 2 years he goes back in the draft and the new team has his rights for 2 more years. The junior guy can just hold out on signing both times and is a free agent in 4 years, same as a college kid.

Every time a college player goes UFA, someone posts this. And it is just as wrong every time.

The rules for college players and junior players are intended to be the same, but they are not the same. College players cannot sign until they are done playing in the NCAA, so if they do their 4 years, they have a very simple choice: sign with the team that drafted them, or don't. No waiting, no downside.

The solution is simple: make the team's rights last 5 years.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Every time a college player goes UFA, someone posts this. And it is just as wrong every time.

The rules for college players and junior players are intended to be the same, but they are not the same. College players cannot sign until they are done playing in the NCAA, so if they do their 4 years, they have a very simple choice: sign with the team that drafted them, or don't. No waiting, no downside.

The solution is simple: make the team's rights last 5 years.

Actually, college players can sign any time they want to... but once they do, they are no longer eligible as NCAA athletes.

The 5 year window (or RFA year) would work in the NHLPA agrees to it...and no one sues... The NBA successfully moved the draft back from 18 to 19 around 10-12 years ago, so that's a recent court decision relatively speaking

[powderjunkie]

If ever there was a time to switch to 19 yo draft, this was it. Of course, the NHL had bigger things to worry about, so I get it.

Have 1-2 rounds this year, then bump everyone else back a year.

Determining exceptional status requirements would be interesting. One idea might be that 18 yo draftees aren't eligible to slide ELC years (so you'd want to be sure they'll play for you that year). If a player isn't signed by the end of that first year, they re-enter as a 19 yo?

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Ken Linseman already forced the NHL's hand on drafting 18 year olds. So that's not changing, not without a court case.

The NCAA is realizing that they can't stop players from promoting themselves to make money. Especially with media what it is now. Once that opens this could be next.

NBA? NFL?

[TheChief]

You can disagree all you want that the flames made out good with what they had to work with , and argue that they wouldn't have been able to nab Lindholm and Hanifin without the Fox sweetener, but it stings to know that arguably our best draft pick since probably Theo isn't playing for the flames right now because he didn't want to and the PA has given the players the power to do that.



Its already hard enough to be competitive in a league of soon to be 32 teams without your prospects jettisoning wherever they want.


Id love to sit down with Conroy after he leaves the flames organization to see what process went into eventually trading Fox.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Since we’re dreaming here, why not make their 1st year after leaving NCAA hockey an RFA year - if they sign with another team, that team has to give up a draft pick - either the round where the player was drafted, or a first or second rounder if they won, or were a finalist for, a Hobie Baker or similar award, in their last NCAA year.

Something along these lines would make sense to me.

Make sure the team that drafted the player gets fair compensation, that's really the issue.

With Adam Fox for example, we didn't get full value out of that, and neither did Carolina.

If there was a clear "minimum price" for snatching up a college player that got drafted by another team, there would be less pressure for the drafting team to trade the prospect early (and thus not at full value), in a situation where there's hints they don't want to sign with you.

Player still gets to sign elsewhere if they want to wait until end of college, but teams agree to compensate each other when that happens.

[powderjunkie]

most recent 31 thoughts podcast they talked a bit about the NHL-CHL arrangement being up for discussion and a lot of past interest in changing things. Mostly related to AHL vs. CHL eligibility for draft picks.

It's sort of tangentially related to all of this. It can be a weird path for some prospects who are too good for junior, but not good enough for the NHL, but can't go to the A. There are a lot of things that can be improved.

[Steve Bozek]

The sad thing is that, unlike how they handled Martin St Louis, I think the Flames knew what they had in Fox.