[News] James Neal on waivers

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Yeah. For the Flames its more of a neutral outcome. They will be free of Lucics cap in two fewer years, but the last two years on Lucic's contract could be a total waste of cap.

The Oilers gambled on who would decline more quickly and lost a 3rd and 500,000k in cap space. The Flames lost nothing, but gained a third and an upgrade (debatably) on Neal for a season or two.

the Flames could not feasibly buyout Lucic until summer 2022. If Lucic can be this effective for one more season, then the Flames are much larger winners in terms of getting cap value. That said, this it a pretty huge if.

The 3rd rounder could be a player, but its very likely that pick will be on the move again, making this debate even more convoluted.

In short the story on this trade is not done, but its trending to be a small recuperation on an awful UFA contract.

I don't even think it's debatable that the Flames got an upgrade. The Flames version of James Neal was one of, if not the worse player I remember to put on a flames jersey. I'm not including people that played a game or two, etc, just legitimate players.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The Flames have done well picking in the second round....this isn't a second round pick.

If they package this with their own pick to get into the second round and draft another Dube or Anderson that's awesome. But it's also a big if.

Maybe this pick will be the savior...I'm not ruling it out. But the way people crow about this pick...sounds like they are banking on it. I'll need more time to crown this pick a champion that's all.

I think that's fair if the team only found players in the top two rounds, but they're found players in rounds 3-7 which is more relevant.

3rd round
Adam Fox 2016

4th round
Adam Ruzicka 2017

5th round

6th round
Mangiapane 2015
Phillips 2016
Pettersson 2018

7th round
Zavagorodniy 2018
Wolf 2019

Not all of these players will make it, but with Adam Fox and Mangiapane already in the success pile they've mined some pretty decent talent.

How many years in a row did we look at Calgary picks in rounds 3 and on and wonder if they'd even be offered contracts?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

However, it is clear to most that Neal is still the superior of the two, and the fact the Oilers have the option to place him on waivers as they did on Saturday does, even more, proves they won this trade.

Yes, it is clear that the guy who has
2 fewer goals
2 fewer assists
is -2 vs +1
is scoring 0.14 fewer pts/game
and who's cap hit (including retained salary) is 1.25 MM higher
is clearly the superior of the two....because they can pay him to eat popcorn instead of playing hockey.....

[Jiri Hrdina]

Are the Oilers gonna raise a banner for winning the trade?

[Vinny01]

If the Oilers buyout Neal next summer

Lucic retention x 2yrs 750k
Neal buyout x 4yrs 1.9M
Kassian contract x 3 years at 3.2M
Total = 5.85M for the next 2 years.

I take Looch at 5.25 over that mess

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

3rd round
Adam Fox 2016

4th round
Adam Ruzicka 2017

5th round

6th round
Mangiapane 2015
Phillips 2016
Pettersson 2018

7th round
Zavagorodniy 2018
Wolf 2019

Not all of these players will make it, but with Adam Fox and Mangiapane already in the success pile they've mined some pretty decent talent.

How many years in a row did we look at Calgary picks in rounds 3 and on and wonder if they'd even be offered contracts?

I acknowledged Fox and Mangiapane as guys picked after round 2 as being exceptional picks. Everyone else has yet to show anything at the NHL level. Most of them do need more time to get a better picture of what they might be as NHL players if they even make the league. Only time will answer that question.

The fact that Oiler fans might have to sweat this out till 2027 does make it fun though.

They found a way to get some value out of the Neal contract even it it's still a net loss and that's good. If Lucic was making 3 million a year there would be a lot less complaining about him, especially with how he is playing right now. I'll liken it to me saying I'm glad I sold my house for a $15,000 loss rather than held it for another year and take a 30,000 loss. When I knew that there was big risk of losing money by buying a house in the first place.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The 3rd rounder could be a player, but its very likely that pick will be on the move again, making this debate even more convoluted.

In short the story on this trade is not done, but its trending to be a small recuperation on an awful UFA contract.

Someone earlier mentioned that it is important for the team to have more bullets in the chamber at the Draft, which is also something that increases the value of this trade even if they hold on to the pick. The Flames have their own third us the Oilers: if there is a high-risk player that they really like in the third round, the extra pick probably provides a better opportunity to select him whether it is with tbeir own or the one they received from the Oilers. The flexibility itself provides value.


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[GS Skier]

One more take. The Oilers are over the cap and only their Klefbom LTIR gives them any room. They sent Neal down and recieved no real cap benefit at all because they are technically "over" the cap already.

Contrast that with Calgary where we are NOT over the cap. First day they put Doc Ryan on waivers solely to get even more cap space! They still played him! His contract paid him full anyway regardless if he was AHL and we got the 1 mil cap benefit pro rated to the trade deadline. Now of course Docs on LTIR giving us even more room should it be needed and we will still be under the cap. Tree manages the money very well, never mind a few bad contracts of the type all GMs make from time to time.

But who puts a 5 million dollar forward on their taxi squad? Has to be performance related. Neal is not in their line up against the Jets. Plus I'm looking at Capfriendly and it sure doesn't look like they benefited.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Now of course Docs on LTIR giving us even more room should it be needed and we will still be under the cap.

No. LTIR cap space is not banked or prorated. If you don't use it during the time that the player is on LTIR, it simply goes away.

[heep223]

I’m sure this has been asked and answered, and for this I apologize. Nonetheless I appeal to the CP brain. Does Lucic’s NMC mean he has to be protected in the expansion draft? And if so, is there no way out of this?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by heep223

I’m sure this has been asked and answered, and for this I apologize. Nonetheless I appeal to the CP brain. Does Lucic’s NMC mean he has to be protected in the expansion draft? And if so, is there no way out of this?

Without waiving it he will need to be protected.

He will waive, I guarantee it.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Without waiving it he will need to be protected.

He will waive, I guarantee it.

Is there any other reason he’d waive other than a personal preference for playing in Seattle/on the coast/closer to home? Any financial or technical reason?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Without waiving it he will need to be protected.

He will waive, I guarantee it.

Yeah, he will for sure. The purpose of the clause is to not be moved against your will, and he isn't stupid. He knows that Seattle will select someone younger and cheaper.

Worst case for him, it's a win-win for him. He either stays in Calgary and gets the respect of the fans, team, and ownership for doing it. Or he gets selected and gets to go to an exciting new market where he will have a chance to play an important role and maybe become a fan favourite.

The thing I wonder about though, is if he agrees to waive it, can the Flames make a trade with Seattle to entice them to take him during the expansion draft? That would be some next level backstabbing, but also kind of funny. Trade the Edmonton 3rd rounder to Seattle to get them to take Lucic. I know, it would take more than that probably, but I can dream. Not that I hate Lucic the player, but losing that contract would help.


Of course, Lucic might even agree to it, who knows.

[bluejays]

I can see Lucic agreeing to a deal but I can’t see any deal where anyone would take him without the Flames throwing in a first rounder or two, or taking on some salary. The guys contract is super restricting because of the years forward that I can’t see a team handcuffing themselves. For the expansion he’ll probably wave knowing no chance Seattle takes him. I feel for the guy because as a human nobody wants to feel useless. But he’s laughing his way to the bank with the generous contract so it can’t be all that bad for him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by heep223

Is there any other reason he’d waive other than a personal preference for playing in Seattle/on the coast/closer to home? Any financial or technical reason?

He waives because it makes him look good to Calgary management and fans, without hardly any risk he actually has to move. And if the impossible happens and he moves, he’s close to his home, in a no pressure expansion situation, like Engelland. For a couple seasons.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He waives because it makes him look good to Calgary management and fans, without hardly any risk he actually has to move. And if the impossible happens and he moves, he’s close to his home, in a no pressure expansion situation, like Engelland. For a couple seasons.

And they will treat him like gold. They are unlikely to have cap issues for their first 2 seasons, so his cap hit won't matter. If he plays well enough and with heart, he can be a fan favourite. Maybe even be the first Kraken captain in team history.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by heep223

Is there any other reason he’d waive other than a personal preference for playing in Seattle/on the coast/closer to home? Any financial or technical reason?

By all accounts he’s a tremendous teammate. That’s basically all I’m going off. He knows full well what his skill and contract situations are. He isn’t going to claim a protection spot at this point in his career, and risk losing someone more valuable to the team. I really think the list of players who would do this is quite small. Plus as others have said, there is almost no chance they take him.

Neal would.

[dino7c]

The Kraken taking Lucic would be the greatest thing EVER...I would watch Oiler fan reactions on youtube for days

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by heep223

Is there any other reason he’d waive other than a personal preference for playing in Seattle/on the coast/closer to home? Any financial or technical reason?

Kind of a technical reason is the secret handshake deal with Treliving, Treliving would honer the retention on his NMC if he would waive for the E draft.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think that's fair if the team only found players in the top two rounds, but they're found players in rounds 3-7 which is more relevant.

3rd round
Adam Fox 2016

4th round
Adam Ruzicka 2017

5th round

6th round
Mangiapane 2015
Phillips 2016
Pettersson 2018

7th round
Zavagorodniy 2018
Wolf 2019

Not all of these players will make it, but with Adam Fox and Mangiapane already in the success pile they've mined some pretty decent talent.

How many years in a row did we look at Calgary picks in rounds 3 and on and wonder if they'd even be offered contracts?

Looking at results like that it makes me feel like we should have stopped giving picks away earlier, and started selling players off when we reach a mediocre level.

Why bring in a guy like Hamonic? The cost is enormous...why didn't we sell Brodie for picks? Even that BS from Burke all those years ago with Cammalleri at the deadline...guy should've gone for a 4th as that was the market that year. Burke just had to much pride.

The team isn't driving better results, as a fanbase we need to push for more. It's 17yrs since we made the final...and we've thought we were "a couple pieces away" every one of those years, except 2013-14 and 2014-15.

An expansion team has had more success from a standing start...if Seattle does the same thing next year and builds a quality franchise out of the gate, how does that make us look?