ECQF: Boston Bruins (4) vs. Carolina Hurricanes (5) (Boston wins 4-1)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Being a moderator doesn't prevent me from having opinions. I find his view to be objectionable and his willingness to judge someone making a personal and family decision, absent real information, reflects poorly on him. People's tendency to judge others instead of trying to understand with empathy and understanding is a problem in this world.

Doesn't make him a good or bad person. I don't know anything about him. Just means I think his view in this topic reflects badly on him.

I agree with your take on this issue (although I think Rask's comments to the media were unnecessary and ill advised). But IMO you can express your opposition to another view without commenting on another poster's character, especially when your point is premised on your distaste for people judging others. Several mods here have extremely strong opinions which make for great debates but it was a little startling and out of character to see you get personal.

CP guideline number 3:

Address the topic, not the poster.

FWIW I respect the hell out of players like Giordano, Backlund etc. that are out there competing while away from their families. I know you'd agree we shouldn't judge them either, or assume their family means any less to them.
I suspect most players acknowledge just how good hockey and the NHL have been to them and their families which could definitely engender a feeling of responsibility to play.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I hear that feedback and will aim to avoid in the future
I agree we shouldn’t judge those that leave nor praise that don’t.
Though we tend to have mental models of what marriages and families look like they are each unique to themselves. I’m often struck by people who easily offer opinions on someone else’s family life. For instance my wife and I have been judged harshly by many for choosing to have just one child...being called selfish. Drives me nuts
So as such I try not to judge the decisions others make about their own families.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

How is doing your job leaving your family hanging? If anyone in the NHL just randomly decides to skip a road trip because they feel like spending time at home with their family, not for any specific reason but just because they're having a hard time being away from them, you don't think that's in any way objectionable?

Again, everyone probably wishes they could be home with their family, and everyone has good reasons why in their specific case, it's important to them. They're not using it as an excuse to leave, because you just don't walk out on your teammates.

What the hell does this mean, to you? That whenever you miss your family you don't have to do your job anymore and can stay home, regardless of whether your coworkers, your employer and other stakeholders (in this case the fans) are relying on you to do what you committed to do? It's heartless and cold to expect you to honour those obligations? The fact that you have a wife and children means you can abandon your responsibilities whenever you like to be with them, because "family comes first"? This is a ridiculous standard.

Yes it is heartless and cold to expect someone to put their job first over their family. We're talking about family Vs jobs. It's a no brainer. Anyone who puts job over family is a hollow and selfish person.

What is ridiculous is your callousness towards family. I feel sorry for your family.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I assume, then, that you never work, and spend all your time with your family? Otherwise you're putting your job over your family, and are a hollow and selfish person, by your own argument.

What you're saying - that any time anyone wants to just bail on any other obligation they may have to go be with their family, they cannot possibly be criticized for making that decision regardless of the context - is completely absurd. It's one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. You're so married to this "family first" slogan that you've abandoned all sense of proportion and reason.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

you've abandoned all sense of proportion and reason.

...A millionaire left an optional hockey tournament in a different country during a global pandemic to be with his family.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

...A millionaire left an optional hockey tournament in a different country during a global pandemic to be with his family.

During the first round of the playoffs, the starting goaltender for the #1 team during the regular season, being paid $7 million to do his job, instead decided to walk out on his teammates simply because he wasn't enjoying himself and preferred to be at home.

... Yes, anyone can word just about anything in a manner that suits their purposes.

Would I rather go hang out with my dad tomorrow and play a round of golf? Sure, that would be great; I haven't seen him in a while and he's been under the weather. But I have a hearing in two weeks and a brief to write and cross-examinations to prepare, and the rest of the people I work with are pulling their weight, so I need to do likewise. According to Buff, that makes me a "hollow and selfish person" and he "feels sorry for my family". And I say that that's not only yet another unprovoked personal attack (which, as usual, is unlikely to result in anything), but a totally ridiculous thing to say.

[Hockeyguy15]

They aren’t being paid. Regular season is all they get paid for.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

During the first round of the playoffs, the starting goaltender for the #1 team during the regular season, being paid $7 million to do his job, instead decided to walk out on his teammates simply because he wasn't enjoying himself and preferred to be at home.

... Yes, anyone can word just about anything in a manner that suits their purposes.

Would I rather go hang out with my dad tomorrow and play a round of golf? Sure, that would be great; I haven't seen him in a while and he's been under the weather. But I have a hearing in two weeks and a brief to write and cross-examinations to prepare, and the rest of the people I work with are pulling their weight, so I need to do likewise. According to Buff, that makes me a "hollow and selfish person" and he "feels sorry for my family". And I say that that's not only yet another unprovoked personal attack (which, as usual, is unlikely to result in anything), but a totally ridiculous thing to say.

Here is the bottom line, IMO.

People have no idea as to what family circumstances Rask is encountering.

Does any poster have the right to criticize his decision? I guess...

However, they are ignorant to the facts and specific reasons he left.

Pretty empty and cynical conclusion to blame Rask without that necessary knowledge.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

During the first round of the playoffs, the starting goaltender for the #1 team during the regular season, being paid $7 million to do his job, instead decided to walk out on his teammates simply because he wasn't enjoying himself and preferred to be at home.

First of all, the players union specifically negotiated an opt-out for this return to play tournament.

Yes, it's the playoffs, but these are not the conditions his contract was constructed around. He is NOT being paid 7 million dollars to play in the bubble in this optional tournament, just as Austin Czarnik is not being paid 1.25 million dollars to be a black ace for us. The circumstances are simply outside the scope of their job obligations.

Second, Rask only started 57% of his team's games. He's their 1A, sure, but his teammates are aware that they have a strong 1B who can certainly get the job done. Some might even argue that Halak is a better goalie than Rask. I doubt that his teammates feel abandoned any more than the Flames feel abandoned by Travis Hamonic.

The timing for his leave wasn't great? This playoff bubble is a completely new situation for everyone - sometimes you sign on to things that you don't realize won't work out for you until it's too late. Comparing golfing with your dad to being away from your wife and child(ren) is night-and-day.

There's nothing unprofessional about what Rask has done because everything in this tournament is optional.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

They aren’t being paid. Regular season is all they get paid for.

So if Gio, Johnny and Lindholm all decide tomorrow, "you know what, I'm not being paid for this. I'm going to go home and hang out with the kids", you'd be fine with that decision?

Originally Posted by timbit

Here is the bottom line, IMO.

People have no idea as to what family circumstances Rask is encountering.

I can't imagine what circumstances could justify doing this, except for some sort of medical issue or emergency that demands his presence... which, as we know, is not the case.

The narrative we've been presented with is that Rask didn't care about these playoffs, felt they were like an exhibition game, missed his family and didn't like it in the bubble... so he left. I'm not sure why you think there are other circumstances of which we're not aware when we've been told in pretty clear terms by the GM, who is a credible source, that there aren't any.

However, they are ignorant to the facts and specific reasons he left.

Pretty empty and cynical conclusion to blame Rask without that necessary knowledge.

As has been noted multiple times, Sweeney was pretty clear about the reasons Rask left. Based on those reasons, the decision is open to criticism. If there are other reasons that Sweeney wasn't made aware of or neglected to share, that would change my view, but it doesn't seem likely that he was lying or being kept in the dark by his player, so going on what he said in his press conference does not seem "empty or cynical" to me.

[Jiri Hrdina]

There are all sorts of reasons beyond a medical emergency why he would feel the need to go back. And it sounds like the Bruins are supportive

"We understand completely where Tuukka is coming from," Sweeney said. "I don't think it's any big surprise to us to be honest with you. We’re privy to information maybe before the rest of the public is, and this has been a difficult decision for Tuukka, but the Boston Bruins are in full support of why he made this devision”

I see nothing where Sweeny was clear on the reasons. He only says what it wasn’t...he doesn’t specify the actual reasons. Nor should he

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

So if Gio, Johnny and Lindholm all decide tomorrow, "you know what, I'm not being paid for this. I'm going to go home and hang out with the kids", you'd be fine with that decision?

Yes? This is just hockey, it isn’t the end of the world to me if the Flames don’t win.

[getbak]

If you were the Bruins, would you even trust playing a goalie if you knew he wasn't fully-committed to being there?

Every time he lets in a weak goal, you're going to second-guess him.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

"We understand completely where Tuukka is coming from," Sweeney said. "I don't think it's any big surprise to us to be honest with you. We’re privy to information maybe before the rest of the public is, and this has been a difficult decision for Tuukka, but the Boston Bruins are in full support of why he made this devision”

I see nothing where Sweeny was clear on the reasons. He only says what it wasn’t...he doesn’t specify the actual reasons. Nor should he

I understand where he's coming from too. I can understand being away from your family being difficult, and it sounds like he's had this conversation with them before, based on Sweeney saying they saw this coming because they had information before the rest of us. But this is what I'm talking about when I say he gave a pretty clear indication of what the reasons were:

“His family is safe and healthy,” Sweeney said. “But with a newborn and two other young girls it’s been challenging. It’s nothing specific. Fortunately, his family is healthy. To have their dad back to be around on a regular basis is exactly what Tuukka needs to do at this point in time.”

“I think you can rightfully infer that Tuukka was having a tough time being away in this environment,” Sweeney said. “That’s nothing against what the NHL has put together. With the intensity of the playoffs, this is playoff hockey. Let’s make no mistake about it. The stakes are high. The players are invested. Tuukka, in his own right, felt he needed to be elsewhere rather than being here currently in this situation. He’s the same goaltender that went to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final. He’ll be the same player when we get up and running next year.”

That does not sound like there were special circumstances that required him to leave so that his family could be taken care of. It sounds like he just didn't want to be there.

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Yes? This is just hockey, it isn’t the end of the world to me if the Flames don’t win.

Uh, okay. I just think that's a surprising take. I would consider that a black mark on their tenure as Flames. Considering people want those guys run out of town for not making enough effort on a power play, I suspect most people would be pretty annoyed if they just up and left for no urgent reason.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think that's your interpretation of the comments. To take those comments and say "it sounds like he just didn't want to be there" is a massive leap. Sweeney doesn't say that at all.

[timbit]

Maybe take your hockey fan hat off and put your lawyer suit on for a minute.

Does Rask have every legal right to leave the bubble and his team , for whatever reason and whenever he wants?

That’s what I thought!

Whatever you believe is unethical becomes quite irrelevant.

Sweeney backed him to the hilt, by the way.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think that's your interpretation of the comments. To take those comments and say "it sounds like he just didn't want to be there" is a massive leap. Sweeney doesn't say that at all.

Yes, of course it's my interpretation of those comments. Whose else could it be? But I think if you read what he said objectively, the meaning is perfectly clear. There's nothing specific that's wrong that's being addressed here, his family just gets to have their dad back. He was having a tough time in the bubble. Most of the players were invested, but Rask felt he needed to be elsewhere. I'm not sure why those conclusions are unreasonable given that that's precisely what he said. It's not that hard to interpret, in my view.

Originally Posted by timbit

Maybe take your hockey fan hat off and put your lawyer suit on for a minute.

Does Rask have every legal right to leave the bubble and his team , for whatever reason and whenever he wants?

That’s what I thought!

Whatever you believe is unethical becomes quite irrelevant.

Sweeney backed him to the hilt, by the way.

Why does what I believe is unethical become irrelevant because he had a legal right to do what he did? That doesn't make any sense. Whether you have a legal right to do something, and whether you should do that thing, are two very different questions. This should be obvious.

And of course his GM is going to back him, that's the professional thing to do. There would be no sense at all in throwing him under the bus.

[Jiri Hrdina]

The meaning is not perfectly clear, and I would suggest you are not looking at it objectively at all.

There are all sorts of things that the statement could mean, including
- The family is physically fine, but members are struggling mentally being away from their father
- His wife is struggling under the weight of caring for 3 children
- The family is struggling with the reality of being away from each other during a global pandemic
- Tuuka is struggling with the guilt of being away from them
- Countless others.

The point is we don't know. And I'm not going to guess what's going on. Because I don't need to. If someone says "Right now, during this global pandemic, my family needs me" I'm good. I don't need to know anything else. Nor am I going to try to guess what's going on on the basis of a few lines from the GM who is expressing support of the player.

[transplant99]

Well...if anyone knows outside the Bruins org. it would be KDP.

Here is what he thinks.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1294804008499060736

[Jiri Hrdina]

The key sentence:

"Look, we don’t really know what’s going on here, because whatever the state of Rask’s family dynamics, whatever influence they have on his mindset for the job, that’s his business."