WCQF: Vegas Golden Knights (1) vs Chicago Blackhawks (8) (Vegas wins 4-1)

[Enoch Root]

Scouting and management deserve credit for sure. But I would guess that every singe one of them would admit that they had no idea how good they would become.

How many guys blossomed out of nowhere, all at the same time?

[Enoch Root]

^ meant #6 guy, not $6 guy

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Again, no they didn't. They paid that money to get an NHL franchise, not to be gifted a contender.

I imagine the expansion rules were part of the negotiation process though

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Larry David

small price to pay in order to have had the hawks eliminate the oilers, no?

They're completely unrelated events, so... no.

If the Hawks hadn't won on Sunday, they wouldn't have a game today and the Flames game would be in prime time rather than this afternoon.

[SeanCharles]

It irked me that the league was expanding yet a team like Florida is too cheap/poor to pay/keep guys like Marchessault and Smith.

They even signed Smith and wanted no part of him after a couple seasons in which he put up 2nd line numbers. And with Marchessault, who wants to get rid of a guy who just scored 30 for you?

It’s pretty rare to see 30 goal/year flukes these days.

Plain and simple Florida didn’t want to pay them and was willing to get worse in order to not have to.

It continues on as they will let Dadonov and Hoffman walk for nothing and traded Trocheck for pennies on the dollar to bring in cheaper youngsters and UFA who will also likely walk.

It seemed crazy to expand when we still have problem franchises like Florida and Arizona - teams that will never have the resources/fan base/ownership group willing to spend what is needed to actually build a winner.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by BarDown

I think Vegas' management group deserves a ton of credit for building the team they did. Saying they were gifted a top team isn't accurate. There's no question that they had advantages that other expansion teams did not. However, they still had to pick from the 8th or 9th best players on each team, and fit them into a cap-compliant, competitive roster.

In retrospect, exempting Vegas from the Seattle expansion draft was unnecessary and generous. A mechanism likely should have been put in place such that Vegas lost its exempt status if it qualified for the playoffs in the seasons leading up to Seattle's draft.

I can't think of a principled reason to exempt a playoff-calibre team from the expansion draft simply on the basis that they are also a new club.

I think the argument (fair enough) is they didn't get any $$ from Seattle


its one thing for them not to lose a player that is brutal in retrospect, but I know the league says they are going to monitor the situation (not sure how) but the fact they can also be a sink for all of other teams who have protection issues (* lets say Valimaki was in play- although currently he isn't as one example- vegas can swing trades for these guys or at least bid with Seattle for them unless things are clarified in ways I'm not familiar)

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Coach

I have no problem with the Knights early success. A way better thing for the league than having yet another sunbelt team that sucks for years on end drawing no fans and becoming a laughing stock. Would that have been a better thing for you guys?

Who cares about the league? I am a Flames STH, all i care about is the Flames winning. I’d love to have 30 teams that suck and the Flames.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Who cares about the league? I am a Flames STH, all i care about is the Flames winning. I’d love to have 30 teams that suck and the Flames.

Then no one would watch hockey and the Flames wouldn’t be a thing.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

It seemed crazy to expand when we still have problem franchises like Florida and Arizona - teams that will never have the resources/fan base/ownership group willing to spend what is needed to actually build a winner.

An expansion team makes the league way more money than a relocation.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

It irked me that the league was expanding yet a team like Florida is too cheap/poor to pay/keep guys like Marchessault and Smith.

They even signed Smith and wanted no part of him after a couple seasons in which he put up 2nd line numbers. And with Marchessault, who wants to get rid of a guy who just scored 30 for you?

I don't think that was just a money thing.

That was Dale Tallon scapegoating the previous regime and trying to get rid of any of the players that they "computer boys" liked and brought in during the 12 months he wasn't GM.

He went and spend $2.5M on Radim Vrbata, and $4M on Dadonov right after that to fill the spots left by Marchessault ($750k) and Smith ($5M). So they spent that money right away.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Again, no they didn't. They paid that money to get an NHL franchise, not to be gifted a contender.

Do you think they would have paid that money if the team was guaranteed to be nothing more than an AHL caliber line-up for the first five years of their existence? I seriously doubt it. A half-billion dollars should still buy more than just the privilege of sharing the same rarified air as the Ottawa Senators and the Buffalo Sabres.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you think they would have paid that money if the team was guaranteed to be nothing more than an AHL caliber line-up for the first five years of their existence? I seriously doubt it. A half-billion dollars should still buy more than just the privilege of sharing the same rarified air as the Ottawa Senators and the Buffalo Sabres.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Of course not, that's why they relaxed the rules from previous expansion drafts.

Clearly they went too far.

[Scroopy Noopers]

NHL said outright from the beginning they wanted Vegas to be competitive. They aren’t being “gifted” competitive teams, they are buying competitive teams.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

NHL said outright from the beginning they wanted Vegas to be competitive. They aren’t being “gifted” competitive teams, they are buying competitive teams.

Sure, they didn't want them to be a basement dweller, but competitive is one thing.

Two of three division titles, a 7th ranked points % and a game 7 Cup finals loss?

That's another.

Like I said, I wish we could blow up the Flames and build a new squad with the fancy new expansion draft rules.

[The Yen Man]

I know it's different because it's a relocation rather than an expansion, but it kind of reminds me of when Colorado was gifted the old Nordiques. I was super jealous at the time. They pretty much won their first cup within a year or two of the franchise being there, all the while having hall of famers like Sakic and Forsberg in their primes playing in their line up.

As with the Avs, jealousy breeds contempt when it comes the Las Vegas team. So I went from liking the plucky Golden Knights the first year to hating that team now, especially since they rich with players and prospects, but are shielded from the expansion draft.

[Scroopy Noopers]

What would you describe as “competitive” then? I would say a bubble team isn’t competitive, they’re a bubble team.

They also got incredibly lucky as one team in the league had 2 choice starting goaltenders. MAF played a huge role in their success. That is unlikely to happen again.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

What would you describe as “competitive” then? I would say a bubble team isn’t competitive, they’re a bubble team.

They also got incredibly lucky as one team in the league had 2 choice starting goaltenders. MAF played a huge role in their success. That is unlikely to happen again.

A bubble team? They have the 7th best point percentage in the league since they entered, and two division titles.

That is not a bubble team. The Flames are a bubble team, they have the 13th best point percentage in that same time frame.

[Scroopy Noopers]

I’m saying they are definitely not a bubble team. As advertised.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Sure, they didn't want them to be a basement dweller, but competitive is one thing.

Two of three division titles, a 7th ranked points % and a game 7 Cup finals loss?

That's another.

Like I said, I wish we could blow up the Flames and build a new squad with the fancy new expansion draft rules.

That had nothing to do with the expansion rules though, blame the horrible GMs about about 5 franchises.

If the GMs didn't try to be smarter than Vegas and overthink the expansion draft then no way Vegas was a contender.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's the net of those trades that made the Knights a contender, not the expansion draft itself:

Marchessault, Smith, Karlsson, Tuch, Haula, Fleury, Theodore, 1st, 2 2nds

for

Petrovic, Anderson, Dumba, Murray, & Manson

Doesn't really look like they would be a contender anymore does it?

If those 5 teams don't make those bad trades then nobody is talking about Vegas being "gifted" a contender.

Expansion draft format was fine, it was the GMs that were the issue.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That had nothing to do with the expansion rules though, blame the horrible GMs about about 5 franchises.

If the GMs didn't try to be smarter than Vegas and overthink the expansion draft then no way Vegas was a contender.



If those 5 teams don't make those bad trades then nobody is talking about Vegas being "gifted" a contender.

Expansion draft format was fine, it was the GMs that were the issue.

Well hopefully they don't blow it again next year.