[Signing] Oilers extend Nurse (2 years, $5.6 million AAV)

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Why are you using the real amount and not the cap hit? What you are also not understanding is all those players are still under team control when it expire. Nurse is walked right to UFA.

McAvoy is 4.9M
Tkachuk is 7.0M
Meier is 6.0M

Doesn't matter what the final year is because all these players are the calibre player that they will be earning around what it would take to qualify them when their current contract expires. Expires with the team still having control.

Because all those players will be RFA when their contract ends, assuming that the teams qualify them at 9M, 7.3M and 10M. It would be a fair and reasonable point if Nurse was in anyway comparable to those players. There's nothing stopping Tkachuk from taking his one-year 9M qualifying offer and walking away after as a UFA, so I wouldn't say the team has control. They have as much as Edmonton does with Nurse.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Because all those players will be RFA when their contract ends, assuming that the teams qualify them at 9M, 7.3M and 10M. It would be a fair and reasonable point if Nurse was in anyway comparable to those players.

Doesn't really matter that the qualifying it that high, because of the caliber of player they are. Worst case scenario the player signs the 1 year QO and the team can trade them ala Mark Stone. For Nurse he can walk regardless because teh team has no control or leverage to keep him.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Doesn't really matter that the qualifying it that high, because of the caliber of player they are.

I mean sure, I agree that these players are not comparable to Nurse so the point is invalid but the premise is fine. Meier can force the Sharks to pay him 10M and then walk as a UFA as early as possible using arbitration. So that's ricardow's point.

For Nurse he can walk regardless because teh team has no control or leverage to keep him.

They have him until the end of his contract when he becomes a UFA. All these players being discussed can force the same issue extremely easy with the way their contracts are structured. Again, it's not a leap to see where ricardow is coming from in that regard. All of these contracts signed gave up huge control by the teams because they get paid massively regardless, and can force UFA as early as possible. It's not much different then just having a contract that goes to UFA.

I mean, in the last year of their contracts before they become UFA they can all be traded ala Mark Stone even Nurse.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

... it's not a leap to see where ricardow is coming from in that regard. All of these contracts signed gave up huge control by the teams because they get paid massively regardless, and can force UFA as early as possible.

Exactly.

But the purpose of drawing these three examples into conversation accomplishes exactly what ricardodw wants it to, which is to 1) move the goalposts of the arguments in such a way that favours his point, while also implying criticism of the Flames; 2) embark on a rabbit trail past the arguments in an effort to derail the conversation in such a way that is unflattering of the Flames.

So, here, the question of Nurse's contract value and the Oilers's motivation for signing it is never actually addressed. Rather than answer, ricadrodw's preferred response is to make reaching comparisons to other recent RFA contracts with similar conditions attached, but then by incorrectly implying that all the players in the analogy are of equal calibre to Nurse, he is able to maintain that this is a good deal. The rationale is for no other reason than this:

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...Nurse has been paired with Ethan Bear for the whole season... That would be the same as having Gio drag around Kylington for the full year.

In other words, this entire dog-and-pony show is part of ricardodw's passive assertion that Darnell Nurse is just as good as Giordano, and would be the Flames top (or at worst #2) defenseman.

Bingo's last response was right on point, and instead of indulging him in this constant charade, this insistence should be on ricardodw to provide us with a clear thesis:

Originally Posted by Bingo

Can you just tell us what you're trying to accomplish so we can help you out with it?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Still don't understand why you sign this contract if you are the Oilers. If you can't eat up UFA years when a guy is this close to the UFA then just go year to year. I just don't see any value in signing this contract from an Oilers stand point unless you expect his value to just skyrocket in the next couple of months.

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames have locked in Tkachuk's last 2 RFA years @ 9M Minimum
Bruins have the last 2 RFA year of Mcavoy at 7.3M
Shark's have Meier's last RFA year at 10M

Make Nurse's last 2 RFA years at 5.6 seem like a bargain basement.

Aside from thbe fact they are better, they are also signed for UFA years. And also this VV

Originally Posted by Robbob

Why are you using the real amount and not the cap hit? What you are also not understanding is all those players are still under team control when it expire. Nurse is walked right to UFA.

McAvoy is 4.9M
Tkachuk is 7.0M
Meier is 6.0M

Doesn't matter what the final year is because all these players are the calibre player that they will be earning around what it would take to qualify them when their current contract expires. Expires with the team still having control.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Aside from thbe fact they are better, they are also signed for UFA years. And also this VV

You kind of missed the fact boat sir.

Tkachuk has a UFA year left. The last year of his current contract is 9 M. His qualifying offer has to be 9M or he does become a UFA.

when he asks the Flames for 14M x 6 he can just wait and take the QO and go on the UFA market after a 9M year.


This is not a bad contract but it is what is driving Nurses 5.6 x 2 to get him to UFA statsus.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Why are you using the real amount and not the cap hit? What you are also not understanding is all those players are still under team control when it expire. Nurse is walked right to UFA.

McAvoy is 4.9M
Tkachuk is 7.0M
Meier is 6.0M

Doesn't matter what the final year is because all these players are the calibre player that they will be earning around what it would take to qualify them when their current contract expires. Expires with the team still having control.

all these players get a qualifying offer that is equal to the last year of their current contract. That kind of indicates that the team has given control to the players.

Maybe the next strike year will fix the collective agreement to stop this trend.

[Weitz]

I personally think the contract is set up to be traded or for a longer term deal at a marginal increase.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Exactly.

But the purpose of drawing these three examples into conversation accomplishes exactly what ricardodw wants it to, which is to 1) move the goalposts of the arguments in such a way that favours his point, while also implying criticism of the Flames; 2) embark on a rabbit trail past the arguments in an effort to derail the conversation in such a way that is unflattering of the Flames.

So, here, the question of Nurse's contract value and the Oilers's motivation for signing it is never actually addressed. Rather than answer, ricadrodw's preferred response is to make reaching comparisons to other recent RFA contracts with similar conditions attached, but then by incorrectly implying that all the players in the analogy are of equal calibre to Nurse, he is able to maintain that this is a good deal. The rationale is for no other reason than this:



In other words, this entire dog-and-pony show is part of ricardodw's passive assertion that Darnell Nurse is just as good as Giordano, and would be the Flames top (or at worst #2) defenseman.

Bingo's last response was right on point, and instead of indulging him in this constant charade, this insistence should be on ricardodw to provide us with a clear thesis:

ALOC Another load of

You want a clear thesis from me when your posts are steam of snarky emotional drivel with no factual basis or even argument ever provided.

I am not a 17 year old freshman coed who you can make cry.

I never said that Nurse was as good a Gio. Nurse has to get credit for breaking in the Oilers Kylington equivalent.

We saw Gio's play decline when he was dragging Andersson around and improved when he got Brodie back.

That was my Nurse Gio comparison. I have no doubt that Nurse would be a better player with Brodie playing on his right side. Oilers don't have a spare Brodie and next year neither will the Flames.

Using your faulty extrapolation I could ask why you think Ethan Bear is that much better than Brodie.
.

Summary of my posts are that Nurse is solid NHL D-man. He would be a great addition to the Flames bringing a dimension missing since Engelland left.

His contract is in line with the going rate for the last 2 years of his RFA.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You kind of missed the fact boat sir.

Tkachuk has a UFA year left. The last year of his current contract is 9 M. His qualifying offer has to be 9M or he does become a UFA.

when he asks the Flames for 14M x 6 he can just wait and take the QO and go on the UFA market after a 9M year.


This is not a bad contract but it is what is driving Nurses 5.6 x 2 to get him to UFA statsus.

And in that year he's going to sign a contract that eats UFA years. He's not going to be at UFA (unless he goes unqualified, and $9M will be cheap then).

That's the point. Nurse is walked right up to UFA. They have no qualifying rights.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I personally think the contract is set up to be traded or for a longer term deal at a marginal increase.

So is every contract.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

You guys are baited so easily. It's a good thing the mods ban most trolls. Most of you wouldn't be able to stop yourselves from responding.

Well done Ricardo...you win again.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

You guys are baited so easily. It's a good thing the mods ban most trolls. Most of you wouldn't be able to stop yourselves from responding.

Well done Ricardo...you win again.

I was going to say the same thing. Still talking about this.

[GioforPM]

You say responding to trolling, I say laughing over and over at a goof.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

ALOC Another load of

You want a clear thesis from me when your posts are steam of snarky emotional drivel with no factual basis or even argument ever provided.

I am not a 17 year old freshman coed who you can make cry.

I never said that Nurse was as good a Gio. Nurse has to get credit for breaking in the Oilers Kylington equivalent.

We saw Gio's play decline when he was dragging Andersson around and improved when he got Brodie back.

That was my Nurse Gio comparison. I have no doubt that Nurse would be a better player with Brodie playing on his right side. Oilers don't have a spare Brodie and next year neither will the Flames.

Using your faulty extrapolation I could ask why you think Ethan Bear is that much better than Brodie.
.

Summary of my posts are that Nurse is solid NHL D-man. He would be a great addition to the Flames bringing a dimension missing since Engelland left.

His contract is in line with the going rate for the last 2 years of his RFA.

I don't see this as true though.

The Flames best pairing all season has been Giordano / Andersson based on their underlying numbers. And both are better together than they are apart.

In fact although Giordano is part of three of the top four combinations, Rasmus Andersson is part of two of the top three.

Andersson is money.

[Bingo]

Yeah I find it entertaining to take down attempts with nothing but simple facts.