Cartoons upset Danish Muslims

[FireFly]

Did anyone ever think we'd live to see WWIII? Or how about the fact that it was started over cartoons? I mean, some wars have been fought over stupid stuff, but cartoons?

[Table 5]

so i hope i dont have a jihad declared on me, but one of my illustrations is appearing in the new york times on this issue tomorrow.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Table 5

so i hope i dont have a jihad declared on me, but one of my illustrations is appearing in the new york times on this issue tomorrow.

Cool. Do you know if it'll be online?

[HOZ]

So Muslims are upset over a few Cartoons....

How about these.....
Islamic Depictions of Mohammed in Full


Islamic Depictions of Mohammed with Face Hidden


So quite clearly thsi isn't the first time for West OR Islamic depictions.

[Footscray]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Protestant and Catholic cultism is at the heart of the cultural, political and religious differences between the two "tribes" and the fanaticism of religion fuels the hate...

My understanding of it is totally different, more to do with the english invading and colonizing Ireland - the resulting catholic vs. protestant division just reflects the native population v the colonials, it seems like they debate religious differences very seldom and more often clash on grounds of military and cultural holidays.

[Cowperson]

Interesting look into the Muslim world in the New York Times today, "Beneath The Rage":

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/we...ib&oref=slogin

And, "Images Of Mohammed, Gone For Good," also in the Times today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/we.../12kifner.html

Also, FYI, the cultural editor of the Danish newspaper which originally published the cartoons months ago has been put on indefinite administrative leave after he had entered into an agreement with an Iranian newspaper to publish cartoons about the Holocaust. No link for that . . . just heard it on the news.

Is there relevance in establishing a link between cartoons depicting Mohammed and cartoons questioning the Holocaust?

PS: Didn't see the Table 5 link in the Times today!!!

Cowperson

[mbrown]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Theres a little country near Britain called Ireland. Its got a bunch o red heads and two distict religions. Catholics are one of em.

Forgot about that one. But really, maybe 200 people die over 40 years? Also, it's over now. Alot of it was really natioanlism disguised as religion as well.

[mbrown]

Atheists or Humanists have not been known to create waves at all. Can the same be said for the religious towards non-believers?

Are you freakign serious????? What do you call communism numbnuts??? Give your head a shake.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by mbrown

Atheists or Humanists have not been known to create waves at all. Can the same be said for the religious towards non-believers?

Are you freakign serious????? What do you call communism numbnuts??? Give your head a shake.

Stick to being nice or Ill have to be rude to you Mr Brown and quite frankly I can pee much further than you can. If you have some type of information youd like to share regarding Communism lets have it so we can ensure that you arent simply espousing rhetoric preached by the church.
Trying to explain any of this to people whose understanding of atheism came from the pulpit, from an apologetics video, from radio talk shows, or from television shows, would be like trying to administer medicine to the dead.

Atheism -- What It Is, and What It Isn't

Fallacies of Atheism

Atheism is NOT a Religion

Atheism is NOT linked to Communism

Atheists are NOT "secular humanists"...

Atheists do NOT Advocate Satan Worship...

Atheists are NOT "Forcing their Opinions" on Society

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by mbrown

Forgot about that one. But really, maybe 200 people die over 40 years? Also, it's over now. Alot of it was really natioanlism disguised as religion as well.

Mr Brown...quite frankly you are wading into a war of words that you are thoroughly and completely unprepared for. If you wish to throw out numbers or suggestions please make sure you can back them up with something other than your half baked ideas.
Your responses are ill thought and completely untrue.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by mbrown

Forgot about that one. But really, maybe 200 people die over 40 years? Also, it's over now. Alot of it was really natioanlism disguised as religion as well.

Come on now. It took me about 5 seconds to find out that 3523 people died as a result of "The Troubles" between 1969 and 2001.

I don't know how big a role religion played into the whole thing, but it certainly played a part, and it wasn't a good part.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Mr Brown...quite frankly you are wading into a war of words that you are thoroughly and completely unprepared for. If you wish to throw out numbers or suggestions please make sure you can back them up with something other than your half baked ideas.
Your responses are ill thought and completely untrue.

This is a just a hockey forum. I'm not going to get into a discussion with boring pedantics. I think those of us who are arguing against you are just trying to point out the fallacy in ascribing so much evil to religion when secular movements have caused just about as much suffering and violence.

Lets look at China. The consequences of Communism's "Great Leap Forward" was about 40 million deaths in 3 years. True, it wasn't malicious (aside from a few million persecuted, most of them died from communist policies, and some analysts believe up to 100 million is the real count including abnormal deaths and natural disasters and famine) but it was more destructive in time-frame than anything any religion has ever instituted.

I consider that the view of Leninist-Marxist Communism was very much atheism and I can probably dig up some meaningless statistic about religous and orthodox Russians and other ethnic groups being shipped off to Gulags or something but I am lazy. But you'd probably consider that a good thing.

[Cheese]

deleted....

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Cheese

so lets see...in one fell swoop you attribute FORTY MILLION deaths to Atheism? Is that what Im reading here? Or is it Communism? Did you read any of the links I provided or were you to lazy to check out what I provided? Another stretch for sure...but nice try.
Maybe I can pull numbers out of my rear end too....how about all Religions have caused 15 Billion deaths since their inception?

I think he was just talking Communism, which is a secular movement that also caused a lot of deaths. It isn't just religion that hurts people. More often than not, it's politics that uses religion as an excuse. It's convenient.

I mean really, is it the Muslim religion that's the problem here right now, or is it the governments that are using the religion to give their people a common cause, and an enemy to fight? I'd suggest that if you take religion out of it, it's a political cause, and Westerners are contributing it to what is usually a peaceful religion.

[Cheese]

Todays latest ramblings....

Saudi Arabia's top cleric called on the world's Muslims to reject apologies for the "slanderous" caricatures of Islam's Prophet Mohammed and demanded the authors and publishers of the cartoons be tried and punished, Saudi newspapers reported Saturday.

Bugs Bunny wont go away!

Speaking to hundreds of faithful at his Friday sermon, Sheik Abdul Rahman al-Seedes, the imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, called on the international community to enact laws that condemn insults against the prophet and holy sites.

[mbrown]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Stick to being nice or Ill have to be rude to you Mr Brown and quite frankly I can pee much further than you can. If you have some type of information youd like to share regarding Communism lets have it so we can ensure that you arent simply espousing rhetoric preached by the church.
Trying to explain any of this to people whose understanding of atheism came from the pulpit, from an apologetics video, from radio talk shows, or from television shows, would be like trying to administer medicine to the dead.

Atheism -- What It Is, and What It Isn't

Fallacies of Atheism

Atheism is NOT a Religion

Atheism is NOT linked to Communism

Atheists are NOT "secular humanists"...

Atheists do NOT Advocate Satan Worship...

Atheists are NOT "Forcing their Opinions" on Society

Oh boys. Who said I'm religious? I'm not. I haven't been to church in 10 years. I have lived common-law for 4 years. Take off your idealogical blinders buddy and stop trying to pigeon hole me as some sort of religious fanatic.

My only point was that blaming this furor on all religion is a facetious argument. I know exactly what atheism is and I do not need your pretty little links to educate myself. Having a major in 20th century history I can tell you that the essentially 'humanist' creed of communism killed many more people than religions ever have. Practising of religion was OUTLAWED.

The problem here is not religion, it is simply human nature. When lead by any 'creed' some people will take it to it's extremes. In muslim's case, that timing is now and by a surprisingly high percentage of their adherants and it is every bit as dangerous as the communist threat was. (if you can remember that far back).

[mbrown]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Mr Brown...quite frankly you are wading into a war of words that you are thoroughly and completely unprepared for. If you wish to throw out numbers or suggestions please make sure you can back them up with something other than your half baked ideas.
Your responses are ill thought and completely untrue.

As opposed to your opinions of fellow forum members that are 100% false and miss the mark?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by mbrown

Oh boys. Who said I'm religious? I'm not. I haven't been to church in 10 years. I have lived common-law for 4 years. Take off your idealogical blinders buddy and stop trying to pigeon hole me as some sort of religious fanatic.

My only point was that blaming this furor on all religion is a facetious argument. I know exactly what atheism is and I do not need your pretty little links to educate myself. Having a major in 20th century history I can tell you that the essentially 'humanist' creed of communism killed many more people than religions ever have. Practising of religion was OUTLAWED.

The problem here is not religion, it is simply human nature. When lead by any 'creed' some people will take it to it's extremes. In muslim's case, that timing is now and by a surprisingly high percentage of their adherants and it is every bit as dangerous as the communist threat was. (if you can remember that far back).

Don't mind Cheese. He usually only reads what he wants to see, and when he does not see what he wants to read, he likes to try and pervert your words into something completely off the wall that suits his argument.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by mbrown

Oh boys. Who said I'm religious? I'm not. I haven't been to church in 10 years. I have lived common-law for 4 years. Take off your idealogical blinders buddy and stop trying to pigeon hole me as some sort of religious fanatic.

My only point was that blaming this furor on all religion is a facetious argument. I know exactly what atheism is and I do not need your pretty little links to educate myself. Having a major in 20th century history I can tell you that the essentially 'humanist' creed of communism killed many more people than religions ever have. Practising of religion was OUTLAWED.

The problem here is not religion, it is simply human nature. When lead by any 'creed' some people will take it to it's extremes. In muslim's case, that timing is now and by a surprisingly high percentage of their adherants and it is every bit as dangerous as the communist threat was. (if you can remember that far back).

A Facetious argument?
Did you manage to make it through your courses without falling asleep? Please provide us something more than what you are now...which is basically nothing. I am positively bubbling over with excitement at reading anything you have that "might" suggest the Humanists have killed more people than religions have.

In Russia before the revolution, the main enemy of the people was religion. It was the authority of the church that supported and kept the Tsars and ruling class in power. It was the league between religion and state that kept the peasants fearful, poor, ignorant, hungry, cold and in a state of hopelessness. The church and state were so interwoven in Tsarist Russia it was imperative that they had to fall together. The communists determined that they needed to cut off the head and power of both the state and the church.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Don't mind Cheese. He usually only reads what he wants to see, and when he does not see what he wants to read, he likes to try and pervert your words into something completely off the wall that suits his argument.

LOL....Snake...was wondering when you would slither in! LOL
Another hit and run without adding anything relevant?