Backlund possibly out for "a while" -Shannon

[flamesfan55]

Not sure who said it yesterday, but on the fan960 they mentioned that Backlund is hoping to play before Christmas. While yes that's a very obvious comment, good to see that its a possibility.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What is the beef with Czarnik? The signing can be almost entirely buried in the minors.

Ryan was bad and most of us knew it immediately. Needed a Stajan replacement as an overpaid 4th liner with term

Ryan is fine. He's just not meant to be playing 2nd line minutes on our shutdown line. Only looks bad to people because he's playing higher than he probably should be.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Ryan is fine. He's just not meant to be playing 2nd line minutes on our shutdown line. Only looks bad to people because he's playing higher than he probably should be.

Derek Ryan wasn't brought in to score 30 goals. I don't understand why people expected him to produce right away, he's a defensive center that wins draws.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Ryan is fine. He's just not meant to be playing 2nd line minutes on our shutdown line. Only looks bad to people because he's playing higher than he probably should be.

Ryan looks bad because he is bad. He's small, does nothing at an above average level, and doesn't have the tenacity you hope for in a small player (see Mangipane and Lomberg). In Carolina he was a point vampire, leeching off much better players like Skinner, Williams, Lindholm and Rask. Ryan doesn't bring anything to the table the team didn't already have in the system, or could have got at a bargain basement price. Ryan should be thankful that Bill Peters continues to find employment and feed Derek these plum assignments.

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Derek Ryan wasn't brought in to score 30 goals. I don't understand why people expected him to produce right away, he's a defensive center that wins draws.

Ryan was never a defensive center. Defense is actually one of his weaknesses. He can win a faceoff, but he's not string defensively and never has been.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Derek Ryan wasn't brought in to score 30 goals. I don't understand why people expected him to produce right away, he's a defensive center that wins draws.

If thats all he is then he should be heading off the ice after winning a draw on the PP and not staying on to shoot muffins into the corner.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by New Era

Ryan looks bad because he is bad. He's small, does nothing at an above average level, and doesn't have the tenacity you hope for in a small player (see Mangipane and Lomberg). In Carolina he was a point vampire, leeching off much better players like Skinner, Williams, Lindholm and Rask. Ryan doesn't bring anything to the table the team didn't already have in the system, or could have got at a bargain basement price. Ryan should be thankful that Bill Peters continues to find employment and feed Derek these plum assignments.





Ryan was never a defensive center. Defense is actually one of his weaknesses. He can win a faceoff, but he's not string defensively and never has been.

Part of the reason why I didn’t like the signing from the start was the salary. Especially since we just got rid of the Stajan contract. Stajan albeit was overpaid for what he brought at the end of his contract, but his overall career was and will be better at the end of the day. At one point Stajan during his tenure showed and produced more offense than even Ryan ever has. Stajan was actually decent along the boards as well and had tenacity. He would take the body and deliver hits when given a chance too.

Ryan at 1.5-2 million is fine. But at 3 million or more it’s a bad contract no matter how you look at it. He wins draws so at least he is doing something positive but not for his price tag. I’m betting he doesn’t get 30
Points in any given year while he is here. I hope I’m wrong for the sake of the Flames but I can’t see the contract ever being a good one.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

Ryan at 1.5-2 million is fine. But at 3 million or more it’s a bad contract no matter how you look at it. He wins draws so at least he is doing something positive but not for his price tag. I’m betting he doesn’t get 30
Points in any given year while he is here. I hope I’m wrong for the sake of the Flames but I can’t see the contract ever being a good one.

At 3 million he might be overpaid, but it 's also low enough that it's not crippling in any way.

[SuperMatt18]

He's on pace for 10 goals, 25 points, with the 6th best Corsi For among forwards (55%) while having the lowest offensive zone start percentage among regular forwards (47%).

He's being used mostly as a 3rd/4th liner that gets special teams time. He plays the 10th most TOI/game from any forward at Even Strength, 3rd most on the PK, and the 7th most on the PP.

This team needed a center, especially a RH one, that could come in and be strong on faceoffs for us. Which he's done - winning 54% of his faceoffs. And his defensive zone deployment has helped free up our other lines for more offensive starts which is a big help.

It's an overpay by maybe $500k but considering the need of a reliable center on this team I think it was a smart play by Treliving. My concern with this contract isn't even close to the concern I had with the Brouwer deal, or with the Neal deal so far because at worst he's been solid defensively while driving play into the offensive zone (unlike Brouwer who was a black hole possession wise).

Really his production is in line with other recent ~$3M signings from the last off-season.

Mathieu Perrault: 3 goals, 10 points in 29 games
Leo Komarov: 3 goals, 11 points in 29 games
Matt Calvert: 3 goals, 9 points in 30 games
Antonie Roussel: 3 goals, 13 points in 27 games
Jay Beagle: 0 goals, 1 point in 8 games
Ryan Reeves: 6 goals, 10 points in 32 games
Michael Grabner: 6 goals, 11 points in 25 games

Derek Ryan: 4 goals, 9 points in 30 games

The cap isn't $49 million anymore and people have to realize that $3M in UFA really only gets you a 10 goal, 25 to 30 point player. Which is what Ryan is. His biggest problem IMO is that the coach is using him on the PP instead of Jankowski.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Ryan looks bad because he is bad. He's small, does nothing at an above average level, and doesn't have the tenacity you hope for in a small player (see Mangipane and Lomberg). In Carolina he was a point vampire, leeching off much better players like Skinner, Williams, Lindholm and Rask. Ryan doesn't bring anything to the table the team didn't already have in the system, or could have got at a bargain basement price. Ryan should be thankful that Bill Peters continues to find employment and feed Derek these plum assignments.





Ryan was never a defensive center. Defense is actually one of his weaknesses. He can win a faceoff, but he's not string defensively and never has been.

I certainly don't love his game offensively, he doesn't seem to be big enough, strong enough, quick enough or crafty enough to contribute much to even the cycle.

But the defensive drive by is a bit misplaced.

Ryan's rates are actually consistently above average both this year in Calgary and last year in Carolina.

This year in Calgary he's 4th in shot attempts against / 60, 4thi n shots against per 60, 1st in scoring chances against per 60, and first in high danger chances against per 60. (vs Flames players)

That's excellent. He's too far up the roster now, but as a third or fourth line guy he's generally great at making sure bad things don't happen.

Not sure where you got the bad defensively thing.

League wide looking at just centers and the last two years Derek Ryan out of 126 centers to play 1100 minutes is ...

1st CA/60
4th in SA/60
9th in scoring chances against / 60
9th in high danger chances against / 60

Way above average.

Give the guy a break.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

If thats all he is then he should be heading off the ice after winning a draw on the PP and not staying on to shoot muffins into the corner.

It's not my fault the coach loves and trusts him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly don't love his game offensively, he doesn't seem to be big enough, strong enough, quick enough or crafty enough to contribute much to even the cycle.

But the defensive drive by is a bit misplaced.

Ryan's rates are actually consistently above average both this year in Calgary and last year in Carolina.

This year in Calgary he's 4th in shot attempts against / 60, 4thi n shots against per 60, 1st in scoring chances against per 60, and first in high danger chances against per 60. (vs Flames players)

That's excellent. He's too far up the roster now, but as a third or fourth line guy he's generally great at making sure bad things don't happen.

Not sure where you got the bad defensively thing.

League wide looking at just centers and the last two years Derek Ryan out of 126 centers to play 1100 minutes is ...

1st CA/60
4th in SA/60
9th in scoring chances against / 60
9th in high danger chances against / 60

Way above average.

Give the guy a break.

I appreciate your efforts Bingo, but that just shows how flawed advanced stats are. Survey players in the NHL to name the top 100 players in any of those categories and I would be comfortable in saying Ryan doesn't make a single list. Twisting of numbers to make a bad player look like something he isn't is the hallmark of advanced stats. Remember when Roloson was better than Brodeur, and there were stats to support it?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by New Era

I appreciate your efforts Bingo, but that just shows how flawed advanced stats are. Survey players in the NHL to name the top 100 players in any of those categories and I would be comfortable in saying Ryan doesn't make a single list. Twisting of numbers to make a bad player look like something he isn't is the hallmark of advanced stats. Remember when Roloson was better than Brodeur, and there were stats to support it?

Derek Ryan is not a top 100 player, but there is no "twisting" of stats. These are cold hard numbers.


They show that for all his flaws, he is adept at limiting scoring chances and shots.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

I appreciate your efforts Bingo, but that just shows how flawed advanced stats are. Survey players in the NHL to name the top 100 players in any of those categories and I would be comfortable in saying Ryan doesn't make a single list. Twisting of numbers to make a bad player look like something he isn't is the hallmark of advanced stats. Remember when Roloson was better than Brodeur, and there were stats to support it?

Yeah whatever man.

He has a season and a half of teams not getting shot attempts, shots, scoring chances or high danger events against him when he's on the ice.

That's black and white counting by an independent source based on the definitions of those stats, to which all players are treated evenly.

Nobody is twisting anything ... they're counts. He's either elite in this sample size defensively or incredibly lucky.

The fact that numerous teams were in on him this summer tells me your little survey may not go the way you'd think either.

[Stud_McCool]

Came here hoping to see updates on Backlund, but I guess Derek Ryan is no good?

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Stud_McCool

Came here hoping to see updates on Backlund, but I guess Derek Ryan is no good?

I hate to say it but I think no news is bad news. I would be surprised if he can skate again in 2018.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by New Era

I appreciate your efforts Bingo, but that just shows how flawed advanced stats are. Survey players in the NHL to name the top 100 players in any of those categories and I would be comfortable in saying Ryan doesn't make a single list. Twisting of numbers to make a bad player look like something he isn't is the hallmark of advanced stats. Remember when Roloson was better than Brodeur, and there were stats to support it?

I'm sure as primarily a third/fourth liner here, he is putting these numbers up against weaker opposition than any of the 'top 100 players' in the league and would imagine the advanced stats also support this. Considering this, those numbers do make sense in a bubble. There's no reason to even consider him as a top 100 player since he's clearly limited in many realms and is basically just a spare part. Decent depth player that won't hurt you defensively.

[corporatejay]

3m for a UFA centre that wins 54% of his draws and that can take regular NHL shifts is good value. What do people expect for that dollar amount?

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah whatever man.

He has a season and a half of teams not getting shot attempts, shots, scoring chances or high danger events against him when he's on the ice.

That's black and white counting by an independent source based on the definitions of those stats, to which all players are treated evenly.

Nobody is twisting anything ... they're counts. He's either elite in this sample size defensively or incredibly lucky.

The fact that numerous teams were in on him this summer tells me your little survey may not go the way you'd think either.

I think he's getting focused on his poor defensive play due to his own giveaway, and resulting lack of backcheck being the root cause to the GWG to our biggest rivals just two nights ago.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly don't love his game offensively, he doesn't seem to be big enough, strong enough, quick enough or crafty enough to contribute much to even the cycle.

But the defensive drive by is a bit misplaced.

Ryan's rates are actually consistently above average both this year in Calgary and last year in Carolina.

This year in Calgary he's 4th in shot attempts against / 60, 4thi n shots against per 60, 1st in scoring chances against per 60, and first in high danger chances against per 60. (vs Flames players)

That's excellent. He's too far up the roster now, but as a third or fourth line guy he's generally great at making sure bad things don't happen.

Not sure where you got the bad defensively thing.

League wide looking at just centers and the last two years Derek Ryan out of 126 centers to play 1100 minutes is ...

1st CA/60
4th in SA/60
9th in scoring chances against / 60
9th in high danger chances against / 60

Way above average.

Give the guy a break.

I'm good with the Ryan signing. For one thing, only 2 years after this one and I'm confident he can remain a solid defensive contributor during this time.

Now without looking, I'm guessing those same stats wouldn't paint such a glowing picture of Mr. Neal.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'm good with the Ryan signing. For one thing, only 2 years after this one and I'm confident he can remain a solid defensive contributor during this time.

Now without looking, I'm guessing those same stats wouldn't paint such a glowing picture of Mr. Neal.

Better than you think actually ... his CA/60 is 79th out of 238 for forwards over the past two years.