Are the Flames Stanley Cup Contenders?

[Royle9]

I find it _____ (not sure the best adjective) how well the season has gone so far. For years this is the team we've all hoped for, and finally we're playing well and winning in all types of games:

Comebacks
Close games (2-1)
Blowouts

The boys are feeling it, we have a "swagger" to us that seems infectious and honestly its the best I've felt being a flames fan in years!

However, seemingly seems to be this "unsustainable" pessimism surrounding the team from some of the media, some fans etc and I can't seem to understand why. It's almost to the point where I feel slighted that people still find a reason to slam the team VS's recognized where Bill has got us to at this point. Certainly there's a crop of players that aren't playing to their potential and I'm not going to turn this into that convo, but at what point can we just sit back and admire what's on the ice in front of us and be recognized for it.

Either way I'm in good spirits, its been a joy to watch a real coach put this team to work.

[Classic_Sniper]

If Treliving can find a way to build a heavy 3rd line for the grind it out, games. Then I like our chances of playing against any team and any style. That’s how you win a Cup on this league. You have to win 4 different series against 4 different teams in 4 different ways. In tight games where there’s no space through the middle, the 1st line has a tough time scoring. So if we can find a line that can play that heavy game down low, then I’ll really like our chances to go deep. Maybe pick up a Patrick Maroon or somebody like him at the trade deadline.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Royle9

However, seemingly seems to be this "unsustainable" pessimism surrounding the team from some of the media, some fans etc and I can't seem to understand why. It's almost to the point where I feel slighted that people still find a reason to slam the team VS's recognized where Bill has got us to at this point. Certainly there's a crop of players that aren't playing to their potential and I'm not going to turn this into that convo, but at what point can we just sit back and admire what's on the ice in front of us and be recognized for it.
.

That isn't even really a valid argument anymore. In '14-'15 the team was clearly getting outplayed on a regular basis, only to tie or win it in the final 5 minutes. It was an enjoyable season, but a season of fluky wins. That roster wasn't scaring anybody. Wideman and Russell put up career seasons and were actually an awesome 2nd pairing. So much went right for that team to win. If ever there was a team you could call lucky and unsustainable, it was that one. The season after proved it. Remember Brodie's weird goal vs Boston in OT. Completely outplayed, only to win it on a stupid bounce on the top of the net and in. That season was full of flukes like that.

But this team plays to win. They come out like gangbusters. Reminds of the mid-late '00 Red Wings when it would just be wave after wave of attack and puck pressure. All lines playing the same, contributions from everybody. Sure the team comes from behind. But they aren't being outplayed for long stretches like they were during '15. They can pay with anybody, any style. Even in the comeback wins, they are fighting and clawing to get back the entire time.

If anybody thinks this iteration is truly unsustainable, they haven't watched any games. The Flames usually dictate the pace for most of the game. No longer am I worried about what the other team is doing and how we can counter them. Like Walter White , we are the danger.

They are legit a good team.

[MelBridgeman]

Yes

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Still need a middle six centre in my estimation.

If you put Stastny or O'Reilly or Adam Henrique or Carter on this lineup, I'd say they were cup contenders for sure.

I was going to say a legit netminder but honestly Rittich might be able to provide that so I like your answer better.

Having one of those on our second line puts backlund on the third line where he can shut down and provide offence too.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - (any above) - Neal
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Jankowski - Ryan - Hathaway/whoever else needs to slot in

Leave the defence as is, it’s young and awesome.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rubicant

I was going to say a legit netminder but honestly Rittich might be able to provide that so I like your answer better.

Having one of those on our second line puts backlund on the third line where he can shut down and provide offence too.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - (any above) - Neal
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Jankowski - Ryan - Hathaway/whoever else needs to slot in

Leave the defence as is, it’s young and awesome.

I don't disagree with strengthening the forward ranks. My only issue is that whatever line Backlund is on is going to get the second most minutes, because it has to play the best line on the other team as much as Peters can manipulate it. To the extent you are used to seeing second line production from the targets of a trade, they might drop just due to less ice time. UNLESS that second forward line can check as well.

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't disagree with strengthening the forward ranks. My only issue is that whatever line Backlund is on is going to get the second most minutes, because it has to play the best line on the other team as much as Peters can manipulate it. To the extent you are used to seeing second line production from the targets of a trade, they might drop just due to less ice time. UNLESS that second forward line can check as well.

I agree. You can’t expect the same production because as you say, I imagine the backlund line playing either the same or more than the second line. It just makes the team very deep with three lines that can hurt you. That’s hard to match up against.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't disagree with strengthening the forward ranks. My only issue is that whatever line Backlund is on is going to get the second most minutes, because it has to play the best line on the other team as much as Peters can manipulate it. To the extent you are used to seeing second line production from the targets of a trade, they might drop just due to less ice time. UNLESS that second forward line can check as well.

ROR can check.

Tkachuk - ROR - Neal


Yikes

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

ROR can check.

Tkachuk - ROR - Neal


Yikes

People have called ROR a coach killer lately. Dunno anything about that. I sure wanted him out of Buffalo.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't disagree with strengthening the forward ranks. My only issue is that whatever line Backlund is on is going to get the second most minutes, because it has to play the best line on the other team as much as Peters can manipulate it. To the extent you are used to seeing second line production from the targets of a trade, they might drop just due to less ice time. UNLESS that second forward line can check as well.

Yes and no.

Right now Backlund is seeing about 2 minutes per game on the PP, which is 6th on the team for forwards. Ryan is playing just a bit less.

Because of Backlund's offensive limitations and monahan's defensive limitations we've gotten used to the idea that a centre either does one or the other, but acquiring a player like Henrique or Ryan O'Reilly or Paul statsny, that type of player, gives you a player who can play both offensively and defensively.

It gives you the option to strictly linematch with Backlund and then have the flexibility to play your offensive players a bit more liberally.

If you can keep Backlund's even strength minutes similar to where he's at now but limit his PP minutes significantly, he should be a better defensive forward due to being rested. If you don't have to play backlund in an offensive capacity as hard because your new second line C can also hold their own defensively, then you can REALLY line match with Backlund because he can come over the boards mid shift should the opposition coach get a favourable matchup.

You'll see backlund's offense decline if you're playing him third line minutes, but to me it's less about the minutes and more about his linemates.

In my mind, you also get better quality minutes from Lindholm if you can cut his short handed heavy lifting because backlund has some help defensively.

[Corral]

Treliving pushed all the right buttons in the summer. Haven’t seen this much confidence in the flames since 1988. Key acquisitions not only filled holes but have also made existing players even better. Couldn’t ask for a better result. The answer has to be YES.

[djsFlames]

The fab 5 are a big reason for why the team should remain very competitive into the playoffs. When you pin your hopes on 1-2 stars to carry you ala Edmonton, you go or peter out as they do. But when you have a group of 5 of them playing at that level you're probably able to stay more consistently competitive from game to game.

There have been games where Johnny and Lindy alone have carried the mail, then other games where Johnny's been shutdown or held pointless but they're able to win cause Tkachuk or Gio came up big. Then there are games where every puck Monahan shoots goes in and it lends itself to another win.

Pick your combination and it can be enough to pull the boys through on more nights than not.

Having a group of 5 that on average will put up a point for you every night is a big part of why the Flames are scoring 3.5-4 per game, and it's a lot easier to win each night than when you're putting up 2.5 per game like a lot of middle of the road teams.

If Rittich is for real then they're moving in the direction of contenders.

One thing though is I would like to see them handle the Ducks. Since the 2-0 curse breaker, that team has still continued to find ways to take games from the Flames. Even very good teams can have that one team in their division that gives them fits (e.g. for the longest time the Pens for the Caps). Would like to see us overcome the "they have our number" issue.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

ROR can check.

Tkachuk - ROR - Neal


Yikes

Please no. I don't care how good he is individually, that man just carries the wave of suck with him wherever he goes.

I would rage if we got him. No joke. I would be pissed for days. It's a hex.

Bad teams he leaves become good (Avs, Sabres).
Good teams he joins become bad(Avs, Blues).
Bad teams he joins get even worse(Sabres).

2009-10 (Avs 1st round exit)
2010-11 (Avs sucked badly)
2011-12 (Avs missed playoffs)
2012-13 (Avs sucked badly)
2013-14 (Avs 1st round exit)
2014-15 (Avs missed playoffs)
2015-16 (Sabres sucked badly)
2016-17 (Sabres sucked badly)
2017-18 (Sabres sucked badly)
2018-19 (Blues currently sucking badly)

Stay the #### away

[Bunk]

Ror=ng?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Or maybe he’s good and keeps getting traded to no good teams. The idea of a player being cursed is ridiculous.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Or maybe he’s good and keeps getting traded to no good teams. The idea of a player being cursed is ridiculous.

Maybe.
But do you really want to take that chance

[Reggie Dunlop]

The Flames are sneaky-ninja good. Catching the league a bit off guard.

Needs lights-out goaltending to make a legitimate claim.

Nonetheless, a fun team to watch.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Or maybe he’s good and keeps getting traded to no good teams. The idea of a player being cursed is ridiculous.

Are people arguing that he is cursed, or a teammate who is subtraction by addition?

Look at a guy like Bouwmeester. In Florida, he was a desirable defender on a crap team. That was the story. Here, they underachieved with him. How is St. Louis now? I would argue that he is not cursed, just crap.

Why is O’Reilly better than his teams do with him? (Not saying definitively he is the problem, but at least you need to consider why his teams don’t win)

You want players that elevate those around them. Iggy, for example, made a lot of players a lot of money, based on career years playing with him.

Hudler had a career year with Johnny and Monny.
Brodie has career years with Gio.

There is something to finding those players who make those around them better. Tre may have found some good guys and eliminated some beneficiaries, which can be huge.

(Arguably he signed a beneficiary in Neal but ironically, can’t slot him due to his better signing)

5 guys in the top 30 in league scoring? This, if sustained, is pretty bloody special!

[Caged Great]

The player I'd like to get in trade at the deadline is Justin Williams. Is a winner, a skilled middle sixer and would be a good fit opposite Neal. Being UFA and 37, it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg.

A lot of the other options might cost significantly more.

[Kipper_3434]

To be a stanley cup contender we simply need to look at which playoff teams are standing in our way from winning the cup. For me there's only only 3 teams in the league that might have a slight advantage against the flames in a seven game series.

Anaheim: flames are more talented overall but the ducks are more experienced and have a goalie that regularily steals games. Home ice would be huge.

Winnipeg: essentially the same level of talent, but they got some playoff experience last season. Also have more proven goaltending. Flames have better depth (and fans)

Tampa Bay: these guys should be a perenial juggernaut, fortunately they are stopable in the playoffs. Better team on paper in every area except toughness.

It seems unlikely to me that we'd make it through all 3 of these teams on route to the cup, at least not this season, but the playoffs are close and i see this as the year we can enter contender status. Injuries amd bounces happen, IF we can get past Anaheim or someone else takes them out, it very well could be our year.

Teams i'm not worried about:

SJ: don't like their chemistry this year, defence is way too offence first and the flames can exploit that

Nashville: we seem to have their number lately and they lack true top end forwards

Colorado: same as Nashville but they lack good defence, don't see them shutting us down

Vegas: not good enough, last year was special for them, Fleury entering god mode is their only hope.

Edmonton: lol

Minny: lol (okay i'm worried about Johnny's fingers)

Overall the biggest weakness our team has is a lack of playoff experience, both with skaters and goalies. Most other teams have far bigger holes. In conclusion, I believe we are better than at least half the expected playoff teams and on the very fringe of becoming perenial contenders. I trust Peters blindly at this point and believe we have the depth to survive injuries better than most. Playoffs are always a bit wacky, but if there's one thing we should have learned from last season, it's that anything can happen and motivation / confidence go a long way (vegas).

Go flames!