High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by GGG

So walking up to a coworker and asking if I can Masterbate in front of them at work is acceptable office behaviour to you?

Or another way to think about it: would it be acceptable if your wife or daughter was approached at her workplace by a male colleague and asked if he can masturbate in front of her?

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

Because I don't agree that asking is harassment. If he had just invited them to his hotel and asked and got rejected that's perfectly fine IMO but as per the stories it was more than just asking he blocked the way until he was done.

"repeatedly asked her to watch him masturbate, she said. She was in her early 20s and went along with his request, but later questioned his behavior"

This is also harassment, asking once and getting turned down is not.

That's not harassment? Are you kidding me?

[zamler]

Harassment or not asking to whip it out while at work is ridiculous, anyone that does such a thing has a serious problem.

[Sliver]

Who said it was acceptable? Literally nobody.

The question is: is it sexual abuse or sexual assault to ask somebody if you can masturbate in front of them? I don't think it is and if you're traumatized by the question, maybe you're a bit of a snowflake.

This is of course complicated when there's a power dynamic like in Louis CK's case. Still not sexual assault to ask the question imo.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Who said it was acceptable? Literally nobody.

The question is: is it sexual abuse or sexual assault to ask somebody if you can masturbate in front of them? I don't think it is and if you're traumatized by the question, maybe you're a bit of a snowflake.

This is of course complicated when there's a power dynamic like in Louis CK's case. Still not sexual assault to ask the question imo.

Per whitetigers post above it's grade 2 or 3 sexual misconduct.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Who said it was acceptable? Literally nobody.

The question is: is it sexual abuse or sexual assault to ask somebody if you can masturbate in front of them? I don't think it is and if you're traumatized by the question, maybe you're a bit of a snowflake.

This is of course complicated when there's a power dynamic like in Louis CK's case. Still not sexual assault to ask the question imo.

I think you're not grasping his role as a person of influence in their industry, which is pretty much the crux of this entire fiasco.

People in positions of power abusing that power.

If they were individuals of exact same social standing I might be inclined to agree with you, but the fact of the matter is that he is an influential figure in their industry and when he 'asks' hes not asking.

He claims he didnt understand that and I'm not going to comment on how that seems like complete BS.

[BananaPancakes]

Originally Posted by GGG

So walking up to a coworker and asking if I can Masterbate in front of them at work is acceptable office behaviour to you?

I think the most interesting thing I've learned from this discussion is how we all seem to have different understandings of terms like "sexual assault, harassment, misconduct, etc".

In Louis CK's statement, he says that he was in a position of power over these women, which is what makes it wrong. But what if he wasn't in a position of power?

As an example, what if you you went out to a bar with coworker, things were going well and you asked them if they wanted to have sex? Is that sexual assault, harassment, misconduct? What if you just asked for a kiss or hug?

To me, there's nothing wrong with asking and I'm surprised because it seems like a lot of you would disagree with me here.

[Wormius]

I think it raises something else now. Do you need a two-step process to consent - first ask for consent, and then ask if they're consenting on their own free will or because they believe or perceive that you hold some power or influence?

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

HBO announced yesterday that it was pulling any CK projects, including Lucky Louie, from its streaming service.

This has me thinking today... with the diminishing availability of physical media, let's assume that in the future all content is distributed digitally.

As the public owns less and less content, they rely on digital services to provide it. The concept of owning another person's content won't exist.

So, after an offense is made (sexual assault, murder, who draws that line?), someone makes the decision to pull the artist's content from the online service. Consumers no longer have access to the content and have no backups. The online service has the only copy.

I suppose piracy would extend access to content but that only lasts as long as the concept of ownership.

In 50 years, maybe they'll search all media for their version of Louis CK and delete it all (as HBO has done today). And we'll only have our memories, no access to any of their content.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by BananaPancakes

I think the most interesting thing I've learned from this discussion is how we all seem to have different understandings of terms like "sexual assault, harassment, misconduct, etc".

In Louis CK's statement, he says that he was in a position of power over these women, which is what makes it wrong. But what if he wasn't in a position of power?

As an example, what if you you went out to a bar with coworker, things were going well and you asked them if they wanted to have sex? Is that sexual assault, harassment, misconduct? What if you just asked for a kiss or hug?

To me, there's nothing wrong with asking and I'm surprised because it seems like a lot of you would disagree with me here.

First you are at a bar so pursuming it's a non work event the person already came. You would now need to define going well. Are you flirting back and forth? Maybe some kissing, then you ask her back to your place for sex. Sure thats not harassment.

If you are just having beer at a work function and randomly (without prior flirtation) ask a coworker for sex that is clearly harassment

If you do it at work you should be fired.

The key here is the environment and the power dynamic.

[transplant99]

U.S. women's national team goalkeeper Hope Solo says then-FIFA president Sepp Blatter sexually assaulted her in 2013.

Blatter's representative called the allegation "ridiculous" in a statement to Expresso and The Guardian.

"I had Sepp Blatter grab my ass," Solo told Expresso. "... It was at the Ballon d'Or one year, right before I went on stage. ... It's been normalized."

"I was in shock and completely thrown off," Solo told the Guardian. "I had to quickly pull myself together to present my teammate with the biggest award of her career and celebrate with her in that moment, so I completely shifted my focus to Abby."

http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/art...espn:frontpage

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

This has me thinking today... with the diminishing availability of physical media, let's assume that in the future all content is distributed digitally.

As the public owns less and less content, they rely on digital services to provide it. The concept of owning another person's content won't exist.

So, after an offense is made (sexual assault, murder, who draws that line?), someone makes the decision to pull the artist's content from the online service. Consumers no longer have access to the content and have no backups. The online service has the only copy.

I suppose piracy would extend access to content but that only lasts as long as the concept of ownership.

In 50 years, maybe they'll search all media for their version of Louis CK and delete it all (as HBO has done today). And we'll only have our memories, no access to any of their content.

Yes, we can erase people and movies and music and tv shows from history. I recommend we start with Pootytang, that movie needs to be erased from history.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by GGG

So walking up to a coworker and asking if I can Masterbate in front of them at work is acceptable office behaviour to you?

Well since we are changing the narrative to support arguments and changing back and forth from office to hotel etc. Is it acceptable office behavior? I would expect office policies would deem that grounds for dismissal and that would directly correlate to your on set example that I wasn't referring to in my first post so for that scenario I would say not acceptable. Given the same person invited to a hotel room and accepted is it acceptable? yes.

3rd degree sexual misconduct, what I may find alarming you may not and vice versa. I don't think that asking someone that came up to my hotel about a sexual act is harassment (In his case regarding blocking their exit is clear harassment) Maybe you or I might get our feet wet a bit test the waters see what happens before popping that question but I assume maybe celebrities have been in many situations where straight forward blunt questions are normal.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yes, we can erase people and movies and music and tv shows from history. I recommend we start with Pootytang, that movie needs to be erased from history.

what a dow my damy

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Per whitetigers post above it's grade 2 or 3 sexual misconduct.

Well, I don't know what whitetigers qualifications are, but I'd bet money you're allowed to ask somebody if you can get physical with them. I know "no means no", but how are you even going to get to "no" if you don't ask?

This is getting ridiculous.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well, I don't know what whitetigers qualifications are, but I'd bet money you're allowed to ask somebody if you can get physical with them. I know "no means no", but how are you even going to get to "no" if you don't ask?

This is getting ridiculous.

What is your address?

I want to stop by and ask your wife a question.

[WhiteTiger]

I see a lot of confusion over the difference between misconduct and harassment.

Generally speaking, misconduct is something that happens once or very infrequently.

Harassment occurs multiple times to the same person.

To put it in the situation for CK...if he whips it out in front of a lady and rubs one out (with or without her permission due to the power imbalance) then that's misconduct

If he does it more than once to the same person, then it's harassment.

Legally speaking, harassment generally requires a repeated pattern of behaviour over time (though, not always...)

Hopefully that helped clear things up a bit.

[blankall]

What is going on in this thread?

Yes, a middle aged boss asking a 20 year old junior employee if he can wank in front of her is harassment. No, it's not as bad as raping someone. It's still bad though. Yes employees can hook up without it being harassment. This was not that. What's harassment? Use common sense. If it involves a power dynamic and/or an unwanted advance, it's probably harassment.

Can we end this debate?

[Grimbl420]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What is your address?

I want to stop by and ask your wife a question.

I don't know about his wife, but my wife is a grown woman capable of making her own decisions.

imagine if she said yes, then years later decided you took advantage of her?

[Swift]

Where were all the defenders of Harvey Weinstein when he was asking women to watch him wank and/or bathe? I bet Weinstein wishes he could tell good jokes.