[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Fuzz]

They don't build buildings like this anymore.

That's usually meant as a compliment!

[Scary Eloranta]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Bettman coming up on FAN 960

No doubt Rob Kerr will be "fascinated" and "intrigued". Also plenty of "yeah, yeah, yeah's".

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

@Kristen_Odland: "There's an ongoing process/discussion with the city," -- Gary Bettman, regarding a new arena.

@Kristen_Odland: Bettman met with Mayor @nenshi today. "Everybody knows that a new arena is important for a whole host of reasons."

@Kristen_Odland: "This building needs to be replaced," -- Gary Bettman.

@Kristen_Odland: "Seriously?"Bettman said re: the Dome's inefficiencies. "This building was built in the 80's. They don't build buildings like this anymore."

@Kristen_Odland: ... but these aren't the facilities that hockey teams typically has."

@Kristen_Odland: He also used the adjective "antiquated."

Yeah.....

I think someone needs to remind Gary that there is an inherent hatred within the Albertan - and especially Calgarian - identity of anyone from the East coming into town and telling us how to run our schtick.

There is a better way to communicate to get support for this. The incredulous eastern fly by will go over like a lead balloon.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Hey Gary feel free to kick in like $200 million if you think the arena needs to be replaced that badly.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Yeah.....

I think someone needs to remind Gary that there is an inherent hatred within the Albertan - and especially Calgarian - identity of anyone from the East coming into town and telling us how to run our schtick.

There is a better way to communicate to get support for this. The incredulous eastern fly by will go over like a lead balloon.

It really has nothing to do with where they're coming from. It's the message that's tired. Most people just don't buy this " the new arena needs your tax funding" message anymore. Fine, we need a new arena. Invest in your business Flames owners.

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Scary Eloranta

Also plenty of "yeah, yeah, yeah's".

The "yeah yeah yeah's" are cringey. I am starting to believe that Kerr sucks.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Hey Gary feel free to kick in like $200 million if you think the arena needs to be replaced that badly.

They should close a deal to build in Victoria Park. Everyone can see the benefits of a new facility.

The venue would host 76 regular season games a year between the Flames and Hitmen, plus all the extra concert traffic we allegedly don't get now because the Dome sucks. The new arena would spur redevelopment of the whole Stampede Park area.

Don't understand the desire to hold out for Calgary Next. That proposal needs a bullet in its head - they can't tell me the dome urgently needs replacing while wanting to build a facility that won't be complete until 2023 at the earliest.

[UpperLoge]

I'm down with Hockey only in Vic Park.

I still think Stampeders new stadium should be incorporated with replacing the Grandstand at Stampede Park. If they're not running horses anymore on a regular basis keep the turf down, but toss down some dirt and run the chucks/rodeo in there for 2 weeks in July.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

They should close a deal to build in Victoria Park. Everyone can see the benefits of a new facility.

The venue would host 76 regular season games a year between the Flames and Hitmen, plus all the extra concert traffic we allegedly don't get now because the Dome sucks. The new arena would spur redevelopment of the whole Stampede Park area.

Don't understand the desire to hold out for Calgary Next. That proposal needs a bullet in its head - they can't tell me the dome urgently needs replacing while wanting to build a facility that won't be complete until 2023 at the earliest.

I seriously doubt anything happens until the season is over. I would expect ownership is holding out hope the Flames go on a deep playoff run and then take another run at CalgaryNEXT trying to leverage the playoff run and the uptick in support for the Flames that comes with it.

[Scary Eloranta]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I seriously doubt anything happens until the season is over. I would expect ownership is holding out hope the Flames go on a deep playoff run and then take another run at CalgaryNEXT trying to leverage the playoff run and the uptick in support for the Flames that comes with it.

God I hope not. It's clear that the majority of Calgarians hate the CalgaryNext concept. If they keep trying to sell that - it's going to be an endless saga. It's already dragged on too long as it is.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Hey Gary feel free to kick in like $200 million if you think the arena needs to be replaced that badly.

I honestly don't know why people get so up in arms about public money going to a new arena. I don't remember anyone complaining in the media about the $250mil public library we are building, or the $200mil dollar National Music Center we built. Both of those project used almost all public money, and will generate next to nothing for the economy.

Now that the Dome is so old and Edmonton has their new fancy arena we are going to start to see a number of big ticket shows/concerts skip Calgary all together. Garth Brooks did 8 shows in Edmonton, that's 8 days 15k+ people going out to dinner, having drinks and staying in downtown hotels for the concert. Probably 30% of the people that went to those concerts are from Calgary. That is money that doesn't go to the Calgary economy.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Because the public library doesn't cost you $140 for one entrance to get in like the new arena will (it costs the wonderful price of $0). The arena is a closed access, private facility operated by a for profit business. The other two, not so much.

[aaron5425]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Because the public library doesn't cost you $140 for one entrance to get in like the new arena will (it costs the wonderful price of $0). The arena is a closed access, private facility operated by a for profit business. The other two, not so much.

The Library also isn't a a multimillion dollar investment owned by among others, a billionaire....

[Locke]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

@Kristen_Odland: "There's an ongoing process/discussion with the city," -- Gary Bettman, regarding a new arena.

@Kristen_Odland: Bettman met with Mayor @nenshi today. "Everybody knows that a new arena is important for a whole host of reasons."

@Kristen_Odland: "This building needs to be replaced," -- Gary Bettman.

@Kristen_Odland: "Seriously?"Bettman said re: the Dome's inefficiencies. "This building was built in the 80's. They don't build buildings like this anymore."

@Kristen_Odland: ... but these aren't the facilities that hockey teams typically has."

@Kristen_Odland: He also used the adjective "antiquated."

I like and respect Gary Bettman a fair bit, and I know its within his purview to get the best facilities for NHL teams and gladhand a little bit, but this seems like hes laying it on a little thick.

I have to say, in my experience if your own plans dont work out (CalgaryNEXT) you call in someone from an pay-grade above yours to try and smooth it out.

I hope Nenshi is polite but firm. Say 'No' to CalgaryNEXT. It was a half-cocked scheme at best.

And I'm surprised and shocked that King would think anything otherwise.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Because the public library doesn't cost you $140 for one entrance to get in like the new arena will (it costs the wonderful price of $0). The arena is a closed access, private facility operated by a for profit business. The other two, not so much.

A private entertainment venue is nowhere near in the same ballpark as a public library

People need to give their heads a shake. I really dislike seeing this parallel

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Because the public library doesn't cost you $140 for one entrance to get in like the new arena will (it costs the wonderful price of $0). The arena is a closed access, private facility operated by a for profit business. The other two, not so much.

Why? It's still $250mil dollar of taxpayer money going into something for the people of the city to use. And it is free to enter because, we again as taxpayers, pay $50mil ($43mil city /$6mil provincial in 2015) per year to keep it running.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

Why? It's still $250mil dollar of taxpayer money going into something for the people of the city to use. And it is free to enter because, we again as taxpayers, pay $50mil ($43mil city /$6mil provincial in 2015) per year to keep it running.

If the city pays for a rink then they should own the rink and derive all the profits from owning said rink.

In that case I don't have a problem with it.

I'm not all that happy that Edmonton pays for Katz's rink and he takes all the profit. Calgary should avoid this scenario.

[TheKurgan]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

If the city pays for a rink then they should own the rink and derive all the profits from owning said rink.

In that case I don't have a problem with it.

I'm not all that happy that Edmonton pays for Katz's rink and he takes all the profit. Calgary should avoid this scenario.

so you want the city to build and run the rink? Pay $500mil to build it and then hope we make enough money selling popcorn and beer to cover the operating costs? I think that is a much worse deal for the city.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

I honestly don't know why people get so up in arms about public money going to a new arena. I don't remember anyone complaining in the media about the $250mil public library we are building, or the $200mil dollar National Music Center we built. Both of those project used almost all public money, and will generate next to nothing for the economy.

The difference is, as other have pointed out, that a public library and national music centre are not-for-profit entities. In the case of the public library it is a municipal service similar to police or firefighters. There is a general understanding that when one pays taxes, those tax dollars mostly go to fund public services.

The Calgary Flames are a for-profit business owned by Calgary Sports and Entertainment. They're trying to make the claim that a new arena would be such a good deal for the city that the city itself should invest in the venture. Essentially, it's a business trying to convince the city to pay some of it's expenses.

What makes arena deals even worse is that, unlike most investment situations, where the person or organization invest gets a cut of the profits, in this situation CSEC would keep 100% of the profits.

While arena deals may have some merit (it's debatable), the new arena isn't like a library. Rather a new arena would be like if I decide I want to open up a coffee shop. Except, instead of simply spending the money to purchase a location and put in the infrastructure required for said coffee shop, I went to all the businesses around my potential location and told them my shop will be so successful and popular that their businesses will thrive as a result, insisting they give me money to open my shop and then, assuming they actually do that, keeping all the profits from my shop instead of sharing with my investors.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by TheKurgan

Why? It's still $250mil dollar of taxpayer money going into something for the people of the city to use. And it is free to enter because, we again as taxpayers, pay $50mil ($43mil city /$6mil provincial in 2015) per year to keep it running.

It's essentially corporate welfare. Would you be cool giving one of the O&G companies money for a new office tower? Probably not, and most people would be incensed at the idea, even though the prospective economic argument is probably more compelling to give the money to the O&G company. Yet for sports, apparently, people can't wait to give that money away.

Flames have the money to build the arena on their own too, just not CalgaryNEXT. And they will, and that'll be that. I was just being snide to Gary because he's a dickwad. NHL could easily kick some money in to help the arena.