[Rumour] Flames aggressively trying to move up. UPD: Treliving and Kekelainen meeting on floor - Page 10 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GoJetsGo · 06-19-2016, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Really? I hope you're right but based on what I've seen so far I think I'm taking Monahan over Bennett. I don't know exactly why but Bennett hasn't impressed me. I hope he breaks out this year though. What makes you say his ceiling is higher, just because he was drafted earlier?

Really odd take. Bennett hasn't impressed you? Maybe you should take another look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQLS4YrQq6M

He's like a bull in a china-shop with a non-stop motor and elite hands. The only thing holding him back right now is inexperience and a lack of man-size/strength for the rough style of game he plays.

Not every prospect is going to come out of the gate like Monahan did.

Bennett in particular (because of the style of game he plays) needs a good 10 - 15 pounds but once he grows into his frame he's going to be a rare combination and a helluva player.

AC · 06-19-2016, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Bennett had more points as a 19 year old rookie than Monahan had. Food for thought. 18 goals is nothing to sneeze at.

Yep, and after just putting the Bennett video together I think he was far more impactful his rookie year than Monahan was during his.

But that might speak more to Bennett's style of play more than anything. I think he's going to be our premiere forward very shortly.

Azure · 06-19-2016, 06:51 PM

Monahan was a big player physically out of the gate. Much bigger than Bennett. Big reason for his success.

Mr.Coffee · 06-19-2016, 06:53 PM

Yeah it probably is just because I had pretty high expectations for him. There was a stretch this season he struggled to score but I realize he is so young. I also think Hartley sheltered him a bit, and likely for a reason.

People on this site understandably overrate the Flames. That's my other issue. I normally reserve judgement when people are drooling all over Flames prospects because I chalk it up to bias. Again, Laine will probably be better than both Monahan or Bennett I think. There was rumours he was nearing in on Matthews as potentially the first overall. I don't think that'll happen, but he is NHL ready and again I predict he will eventually outperform Bennett. Bennett also has a small history of injuries, which makes me somewhat nervous long term.

GoJetsGo · 06-19-2016, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

People on this site understandably overrate the Flames. That's my other issue. I normally reserve judgement when people are drooling all over Flames prospects because I chalk it up to bias. Again, Laine will probably be better than both Monahan or Bennett I think. There was rumours he was nearing in on Matthews as potentially the first overall. I don't think that'll happen, but he is NHL ready and again I predict he will eventually outperform Bennett. Bennett also has a small history of injuries, which makes me somewhat nervous long term.

Even more odd, that you are significantly under-selling Bennett and over-rating a guy who hasn't even played an NHL game.

Bennett had a shoulder injury and had it repaired. I don't really know that's a particularly worrisome "history of injuries".

Mr.Coffee · 06-19-2016, 07:02 PM

He got injured at the end of the season didn't he?

If people under 18 years old were allowed to play in the NHL, Laine probably would have played. Anyway we'll see I guess.

For Bennett I'm hoping he stays healthy and gets more ice time. As he matures and becomes physically stronger I agree he will be good.

heep223 · 06-19-2016, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yeah it probably is just because I had pretty high expectations for him. There was a stretch this season he struggled to score but I realize he is so young. I also think Hartley sheltered him a bit, and likely for a reason.

People on this site understandably overrate the Flames. That's my other issue. I normally reserve judgement when people are drooling all over Flames prospects because I chalk it up to bias. Again, Laine will probably be better than both Monahan or Bennett I think. There was rumours he was nearing in on Matthews as potentially the first overall. I don't think that'll happen, but he is NHL ready and again I predict he will eventually outperform Bennett. Bennett also has a small history of injuries, which makes me somewhat nervous long term.

I think you're probably right if you asked around the league, few other fan bases would say that Bennett has franchise C potential.

Though I do think you're underrating Monahan, and if you asked other fan bases they'd see him as an emerging top C in the West. And they wouldn't trade him for a mystery box.

GranteedEV · 06-19-2016, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Really? I hope you're right but based on what I've seen so far I think I'm taking Monahan over Bennett. I don't know exactly why but Bennett hasn't impressed me. I hope he breaks out this year though. What makes you say his ceiling is higher, just because he was drafted earlier

Bennett's ceiling is higher because he projects to be an equal or better NHL centre in these attributes:

on-ice awareness
goal scoring
faceoffs
taking the puck away from opponents defensively
competing for loose pucks in corners / creating possession out of the forecheck
playmaking
escaping the defensive zone with a quick pass or with his feet
entering the offensive zone with his puck skills and speed
backchecking to erase rush scoring chances

Just my opinion, but I'll consider Sam Bennett to have had a disappointing career if he's not better than Sean Monahan, unless Monahan's game takes unexpected, unpredictable strides into elite territory. I realize rookie Monahan did pot 4 more goals but that's a tiny margin compared to what my eyes tell me.

EldrickOnIce · 06-19-2016, 10:12 PM

Rookie Monahan was 18 though. Rookie Bennett 19. That year generally makes a big difference. I know Bennett got mostly cheated out of that year, but Monahan at 19 was a 30/30 guy. Cheers to Bennett being better.

Ashasx · 06-19-2016, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Rookie Monahan was 18 though. Rookie Bennett 19. That year generally makes a big difference. I know Bennett got mostly cheated out of that year, but Monahan at 19 was a 30/30 guy. Cheers to Bennett being better.

Monahan was 19 for almost his entire rookie season.

Monahan at 20 was a 30/30 guy.

GranteedEV · 06-19-2016, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Rookie Monahan was 18 though. Rookie Bennett 19. That year generally makes a big difference. I know Bennett got mostly cheated out of that year, but Monahan at 19 was a 30/30 guy. Cheers to Bennett being better.

Uh, Monahan was 18 for four games that season

EldrickOnIce · 06-19-2016, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Monahan was 19 for almost his entire rookie season.

Monahan at 20 was a 30/30 guy.

Not sure why I did not realize there was 20 months between them.
I was thinking only based on draft years

I'll be quiet now

Reggie Dunlop · 06-19-2016, 10:26 PM

Moving upon the draft from sixth will cost the Flames TJ Brodie.

That is the price.

Gaskal · 06-19-2016, 10:28 PM

The difference between Nylander and Puljujarvi is not a young top pairing defenceman on an absurdly good value contract.

Mass_nerder · 06-19-2016, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Moving upon the draft from sixth will cost the Flames TJ Brodie.

That is the price.

Not that there's a really huge precedent for moving up, but giving up one of the top 30 (conservatively) defensemen in the league to move up 3 spots?
I'm not saying I know any better for a fact, but in my opinion, that's waaaay off base.

Ashasx · 06-19-2016, 10:38 PM

Historically, the cost to move up has been draft picks (high 2nd rounders, etc.)

I would say the value of draft picks have gone up since we've seen a team trade into the top 5, so the price would probably be more.... but not significantly.

If a team is serious in trading down (in that a team like Columbus prefers Logan Brown), draft picks are fair value. If a team isn't interest in trading down to begin with, the ask will be unreasonably high (designed to favour the team trading down).

Reggie Dunlop · 06-19-2016, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Not that there's a really huge precedent for moving up, but giving up one of the top 30 (conservatively) defensemen in the league to move up 3 spots?
I'm not saying I know any better for a fact, but in my opinion, that's waaaay off base.

These top 5 drafters are in the market for a cornerstone young defenseman. I believe it'll take a TJ Brodie to move up a few spots in the draft and I'm betting the Flames don't go there. But yeah, that would be the price.

Gaskal · 06-19-2016, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

These top 5 drafters are in the market for a cornerstone young defenseman. I believe it'll take a TJ Brodie to move up a few spots in the draft and I'm betting the Flames don't go there. But yeah, that would be the price.

You're not getting 3rd OA for TJ Brodie straight across, let alone trading up 3 spots in the draft for it

Mass_nerder · 06-19-2016, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

These top 5 drafters are in the market for a cornerstone young defenseman. I believe it'll take a TJ Brodie to move up a few spots in the draft and I'm betting the Flames don't go there. But yeah, that would be the price.

Again, these are all opinions, but I think you're way off base.
If we're giving up Brodie for 3rd overall, we're maybe throwing in a second tier prospect or a second rounder, and walking away with 3rd and 6th overall.

codynw · 06-19-2016, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

These top 5 drafters are in the market for a cornerstone young defenseman. I believe it'll take a TJ Brodie to move up a few spots in the draft and I'm betting the Flames don't go there. But yeah, that would be the price.

Um, what?

I wouldn't trade Brodie for the 1st overall pick straight up. Let alone him being the difference to move up a few spots.