Up to 2,300 Syrian refugees expected in Calgary over the next six to eight weeks

[T@T]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

Two of my most senior fabricators were refugees that came over from the Vietnam war. They've been with my company for over 25 years each. Maybe some of the Syrians can weld and I'll be lucky enough to find someone who actually shows up to work every day and is greatful for the work.

I'm glad it worked out for you and you got a couple of great employee's from Vietnam. I have met a few over the years and they are honest,friendly and hard workers.

But let's face it, you were never ever worried about being beheaded in your lunchroom either! It probably would never happen with the Syrian refugees either but man the screening better be good because ISIS would just love to sneak some hardcore members into the west.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by T@T

I'm glad it worked out for you and you got a couple of great employee's from Vietnam. I have met a few over the years and they are honest,friendly and hard workers.

But let's face it, you were never ever worried about being beheaded in your lunchroom either! It probably would never happen with the Syrian refugees either but man the screening better be good because ISIS would just love to sneak some hardcore members into the west.

Statisticly you shouldn't be worried about this happening regardless of the liberals policy or security screening plans in relation to Syria. Statistically it doesn't happen.

2000 people die each year in car accidents.
1000 people die each year in work place accidents.
2 people died recently in a terror attack.
The worst terrorist attacks on Canadian soil have been non religious and home grown.

The amount of money and time being spent on background checks is likely better spent on workplace OHS inspectors and enforcement.

And from the look so far at whose involved it appears that Europeans are the greatest threat here. Brad walls comments are designed to stir up the lowest common denominator and play on fear and xenophobia.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Trudeau would gain a lot if he simply said he is listening to the concerns of Canadians and is extending the timeline. Global had a poll that showed only about 4% of respondents supported sticking to the plan to bring in 25k by the end of 2015.

It would be interesting to see two polls:

1. Do you support bringing in 25,000 refugees?
2. Do you support bringing in refugees in a 6-week period?

I think there'd be support numbers around 80% and 10% respectively.

Personally, I think we should be bringing in as many refugees as possible and quickly as possible. 25,000 is a good initial target, whereas I don't think 6 weeks is. Some of the local (Vancouver area) groups are suggesting 10-12 weeks is an ambitious but possible timeframe for that volume of people.

My understanding is that Canada will (likely, still waiting on the actual plan) focus on clearing out UN Refugee Camps instead of taking people directly from the warzone.

I like that approach as those people have already undergone a certain level of screening, have some level of documentation available, and it creates nearby capacity for those who continue to flee Syria.

I do also wonder about the long-term gameplan. Are we 25,000 and done, or does that number climb to 50,000 by the end of 2016? We bring in about quarter million people per year through immigration, with about 8500 being refugees.

Do we dramatically alter that number for a multi-year period once this initial wave/chaos is dealt with?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GGG

Statisticly you shouldn't be worried about this happening regardless of the liberals policy or security screening plans in relation to Syria. Statistically it doesn't happen.

2000 people die each year in car accidents.
1000 people die each year in work place accidents.
2 people died recently in a terror attack.
The worst terrorist attacks on Canadian soil have been non religious and home grown.

The amount of money and time being spent on background checks is likely better spent on workplace OHS inspectors and enforcement.

And from the look so far at whose involved it appears that Europeans are the greatest threat here. Brad walls comments are designed to stir up the lowest common denominator and play on fear and xenophobia.

Weird logic. That's like saying your chances of being eaten by a shark are like one in a hundred million and not realizing those odds improve in the shark's favour when you swim in the ocean, again when you swim around Mertyle Beach and again when you hang a belt of bloody fish around your waste. ISIS would love to stem the flow of its potential "citizens" and the best way to do that is to create a risk. They've told you this straight up. The last thing any NVA soldier wanted to do in 1975 after finally liberating their county was hop on a boat and kill more Americans. I'm all for progressive thought and helping these people but spending the time and effort on OHS inspectors is...let's just say there should be time enough for both in a society as great as this one.

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The last thing any NVA soldier wanted to do in 1975 after finally liberating their county was hop on a boat and kill more Americans.

The last thing people fleeing ISIS want to do is radicalize and commit terrorism.

[Tron_fdc]

I was wondering about the actual logistics of sending a terrorist over. Is it even a realistic scenario? Can anyone here imagine heading over to the middle east, knowing absolutely no one, and putting together a plot to kill a bunch of people?

Think of it from the "terrorist" perspective.

You're going to Canada, which is on the other side of the world. Who do you know there that can actually help your cause, that isn't already known to the government? How do you go about procuring weapons and explosives? It's not like disguised Syrians are going to walk into the local UFA in Prince Albert and buy a bunch of fertilizer without arousing a LITTLE suspicion.

Are there AK47's floating around this country that I don't know about? Are you going to wander the streets of downtown Lethbridge looking for an arms dealer? Hell, I can't even buy ammo for a .22 these days without being scrutinized at Canadian Tire.

Not to mention the microscope these people are going to be under. Is it even a realistic scenario that someone infiltrates the immigrant ranks and causes some kind of incident here, or is it more possible that we all die in a plane crash? Or should we be more concerned with homegrown lunatics like David Koresh or Nichols and Mcveigh?

Maybe I'm out to lunch and totally naive, but I can't see something like Paris happening here. I watch what is happening in Europe, and it STILL doesn't deter me from thinking that we should be taking in immigrants. Hell, I would probably take MORE if it was up to me.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

The last thing people fleeing ISIS want to do is radicalize and commit terrorism.

I agree. But can we at least make sure they're fleeing ISIS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...652_story.html

I'm sure we are doing exactly by starting with UN refugees. But this isn't a job for OHS inspectors.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I agree. But can we at least make sure they're fleeing ISIS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...652_story.html

I'm sure we are doing exactly by starting with UN refugees. But this isn't a job for OHS inspectors.

IIRC, the Liberals said that all the refugees will be selected from camps in Turkey. It's very unlikely that non-Syrian refugees would migrate to cramped, undersupplied, slum Syrian refugee camps in Turkey. Yes, what you posted is a real issue for Europe, but I don't see it being an issue here.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Weird logic. That's like saying your chances of being eaten by a shark are like one in a hundred million and not realizing those odds improve in the shark's favour when you swim in the ocean, again when you swim around Mertyle Beach and again when you hang a belt of bloody fish around your waste. ISIS would love to stem the flow of its potential "citizens" and the best way to do that is to create a risk. They've told you this straight up. The last thing any NVA soldier wanted to do in 1975 after finally liberating their county was hop on a boat and kill more Americans. I'm all for progressive thought and helping these people but spending the time and effort on OHS inspectors is...let's just say there should be time enough for both in a society as great as this one.

Your missing the point. In terms of dollars spent per life saved I am arguing that any additional screening beyond what was planned before this event is a waste of money and could be better spent elsewhere.

And in terms of fear you should fear driving to work thousands of times more than terrorist attacks let alone a terrorist attack from Syrian refugees. The risk of terrorist attacks in Canada hasn't changed as a result of the Paris attacks.

The reaction of people to the Paris attacks while understandable is purely emotional and shouldn't dictate policy. And Canada's risk of terrorist attacks is driven by internal radicalization rather than immigrants.

Also even when you only consider people who go in the ocean the amount of people attacked by sharks is still Statisticly zero.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

IIRC, the Liberals said that all the refugees will be selected from camps in Turkey. It's very unlikely that non-Syrian refugees would migrate to cramped, undersupplied, slum Syrian refugee camps in Turkey. Yes, what you posted is a real issue for Europe, but I don't see it being an issue here.

That is not to say ISIS hasn't gained access to those camps posing as refugees. Again, in no uncertain terms, this is what ISIS is telling you they will do. Similar UN camps in Pakistan are filled with Taliban and Taliban "hiring reps". The longer we leave people in these camps the more likely it is that they become anti what we have to offer. So I get the importance of getting people out. But relying on a UN camp for proper vetting is only a start.

[CroFlames]

I think it's important to post this link again, credit to undercoverbrother.

http://canadaam.ctvnews.ca/canadians...pert-1.2660279


It tells us that when the conflict first started, Canadian/UN officials already began the process 3 or 4 years ago. Canada's government has a pretty good handle of the people currently living in camps who are low risk and could potentially benefit the Canadian economy.

I was apprehensive about the whole 25k in six weeks timeline too because I believe an ISIS terrorist or two could easily just be another face in the crowd. What this link tells me is the due diligence has been done, and it's just a matter of bringing these folks over and finalizing the screening. Do I think this was a political move by Trudeau? Yes, but if it benefits suffering people, well it's a good thing then. Again, if the homework was done (which it appears it has been) then bring them over and settle them in. If Canada "can't afford" to do it, then by golly who the #### can?

"There's a vast difference between the outpouring of 700,000 refugees pouring into Europe with no security screens, and the kind of security screens that are in place for every refugee that is resettled from the Middle East," he told CTV's Canada AM.

"This operation will be done without compromising security," he added.

First, the UNHCR has already triaged the refugees and assessed those that would make ideal candidates for re-settlement, he said, noting that less than five per cent of asylum seekers make that initial cut. For these candidates, there is additional security screening so that UN officials can learn their stories, he added.

He added that, when the Syrian civil war began four years ago, the first refugee flows out of Syria were people who were primarily secular, politically active and pro-democratic.
"They've now been in the neighbouring countries as refugees for four years," he said. "We know who those people are.
"So it's actually quite easy to identify 25,000 that fit into extremely low-risk security categories."

This assures me that the refugees that will be coming over are low-risk. Will there be crime? Likely. There's crime in every demographic of Canadian society. Terrorism from the resettled refugees? Not very likely at all.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

A "recent incident" (photograph of a kid on the beach) is the reason we're talking about this in the first place. Why wouldn't this recent event spark a few questions?

Demanding change due to a death that was preventable is a bit different than asking for change because a passport that may have belonged to a terrorist means he may have been a Syrian refugee and plans to accommodate Syrian refugees may lead to a reduction in screening checks according to people who haven't even seen the plan that is still being drafted.

Nevertheless, the promise made by the Liberals did play on the emotions of Canadians and is worthy of the same criticism.

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I really don't see why we can't figure out how we're going to do something before we promise to do it. I'd love to see "how it can be done" but logic would suggest a plan first.

I have to agree that it is much better to have a plan before making promises. However, it was made during an election campaign and I'm willing to allow it as long as they treat it as a gamble and are willing to break that promise if a solid plan cannot be created. Just to clarify, I'm not okay with them gambling on national security but whether or not they can keep their promise.

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

You can't blame people for starting to be frustrated with the way this is going though. All they want is answers to very basic questions that the government should have known before they even opened their mouth on the number of people being allowed and the timeline. Not knowing the cost of this plan, who is going to pay for it, how it will be implemented and how they will keep those who represent a risk out are all things they should have been ready to answer on day one.

People have been asking about the plans for all of this, but all they get is told to trust them and that a plan is coming out soon, all while the days keep ticking away. Trudeau would gain a lot if he simply said he is listening to the concerns of Canadians and is extending the timeline. Global had a poll that showed only about 4% of respondents supported sticking to the plan to bring in 25k by the end of 2015.

If the plan is not even being implemented yet, why suspend it? Why not wait for the plan to be revealed before making a decision on its implementation?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

I was wondering about the actual logistics of sending a terrorist over. Is it even a realistic scenario? Can anyone here imagine heading over to the middle east, knowing absolutely no one, and putting together a plot to kill a bunch of people?

Think of it from the "terrorist" perspective.

You're going to Canada, which is on the other side of the world. Who do you know there that can actually help your cause, that isn't already known to the government? How do you go about procuring weapons and explosives? It's not like disguised Syrians are going to walk into the local UFA in Prince Albert and buy a bunch of fertilizer without arousing a LITTLE suspicion.

Are there AK47's floating around this country that I don't know about? Are you going to wander the streets of downtown Lethbridge looking for an arms dealer? Hell, I can't even buy ammo for a .22 these days without being scrutinized at Canadian Tire.

Not to mention the microscope these people are going to be under. Is it even a realistic scenario that someone infiltrates the immigrant ranks and causes some kind of incident here, or is it more possible that we all die in a plane crash? Or should we be more concerned with homegrown lunatics like David Koresh or Nichols and Mcveigh?

Maybe I'm out to lunch and totally naive, but I can't see something like Paris happening here. I watch what is happening in Europe, and it STILL doesn't deter me from thinking that we should be taking in immigrants. Hell, I would probably take MORE if it was up to me.

they're not necessarily going to send a raving mad terrorist over, they're going to send guys over that will integrate into the communities and recruit and radicalize.

They're going to send over people that are planners not trigger men, people that already know where the network of weapons are for example, who can encourage and put together a plan.

They're sending over the virus, not the tumor.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

they're not necessarily going to send a raving mad terrorist over, they're going to send guys over that will integrate into the communities and recruit and radicalize.

They're going to send over people that are planners not trigger men, people that already know where the network of weapons are for example, who can encourage and put together a plan.

They're sending over the virus, not the tumor.

If they send anyone at all.


If I was to be concerned I would be concerned about home grown radicals.

[GreenLantern]

Sask PM Brad Wall has been all over the news about not wanting any refugees in Saskatchewan, this spoof article really made me laugh.

“I would rather endure another aerial bombardment than watch another re-run of “Corner Gas””, lamented Basim Kareem who fled Homs when Syrian government forces began to shell the city. “There’s only so much I can converse about potash and wheat. And let’s be honest, the only thing more humiliating than living in a province with a CFL team incapable of playing football, is living in a province where people actually care about CFL football.”

http://www.thebeaverton.com/national...n-saskatchewan

[NewFan]

I'm not sure about this. When I watch those youtube videos about EU refugee crises I would delay this. If you can buy fake documents in Turkey market by $700 how we know who is coming to Canada.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

For those interested in ways to help there is this event on Thursday morning at the central library:

I'm interested in where this barbed-wire compound will be located. Its going to get mighty cold in a few days here.

[polak]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I'm not sure about this. When I watch those youtube videos about EU refugee crises I would delay this. If you can buy fake documents in Turkey market by $700 how we know who is coming to Canada.

If the Canadian government can get fooled by $700 fake documents then we have far bigger problems on our hands and frankly it's a miracle that we haven't been attacked yet.

Some of you should really read about CSEC (or CSE) and just how advanced Canada's surveillance and security really is.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I'm not sure about this. When I watch those youtube videos about EU refugee crises I would delay this. If you can buy fake documents in Turkey market by $700 how we know who is coming to Canada.

If they can get fake documents that can pass Canadian security anyway, then why bother even going through the rigmarole of the refugee process when they would have a less than 50% chance of being selected? Why wouldn't they just get fake documents of a different nationality and come over as a legit visitor? They would be making it unnecessarily difficult on themselves trying to do it via a refugee camp.

Sure, there is always a theoretical chance that some ISIS people escaped to camps and will be among those selected and we certainly don't want that ideology being spread here. There were Nazi war criminals that immigrated to Canada after WW2 as well, so the system isn't fool proof. But should that stop us from doing the right thing? The due diligence will be laboursome, no doubt about it. But that doesn't mean that it needs to take a long time.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

If they send anyone at all.


If I was to be concerned I would be concerned about home grown radicals.

Pulled from the other thread. It's a bit of a read, and could use Coles notes (I'm a little busy at work) but I read it last night after seeing it on my FB feed.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-wants/384980/

There are explanations in there regarding the "fight" ISIS is after, and where it will be waged (Dabiq, Syria). ISIS fighters are travelling there for "their version of Waterloo", and the terrorist acts we are seeing now are mainly perpetrated by homegrown radicals who have had their passports taken away by their home country.

A few “lone wolf” supporters of the Islamic State have attacked Western targets, and more attacks will come. But most of the attackers have been frustrated amateurs, unable to immigrate to the caliphate because of confiscated passports or other problems. Even if the Islamic State cheers these attacks—and it does in its propaganda—it hasn’t yet planned and financed one.

Reading that article (and it really is a MUST READ) leads me to believe that their eventual downfall will be their strict adherence to the ancient texts, which predict where and when their battles will be fought. Calling in all your fighters and congregating in the fields of Dabiq to wage a foot soldier war would probably be a pretty bad idea.......