Bob Hartley and the Coaching Staff Thread

[devo22]

yes to Vigneault. Unsure about a Sutter return ... HUGE no to Capuano and especially Crawford (WTF?)

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by devo22

yes to Vigneault. Unsure about a Sutter return ... HUGE no to Capuano and especially Crawford (WTF?)

Why "yes to Vigneault"?

If you're going to support the firing of Hartley, be respectful enough to him and what he has done for this team this far, and give a reasonable explanation for the opinion.

Not singling you out. My reply is addressed at anyone who feels Hartley should be dumped.

You don't dump a 8-hot and 7-crazy for a 10 hot and 10 crazy.. It's proven science!

[Street Pharmacist]

The issue has been done to death. Good motivator maybe but the results aren't there, player selection is bamboozling at times and the system is a tire fire possession wise. If all the coaches with his tenure he's got the worst record I believe.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

The issue has been done to death. Good motivator maybe but the results aren't there, player selection is bamboozling at times and the system is a tire fire possession wise. If all the coaches with his tenure he's got the worst record I believe.

meow?

[OffsideSpecialist]

To be fair to Bob, no coach has ever been successful with Atlanta/Winnipeg. Has that franchise won a playoff game yet?

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

The issue has been done to death. Good motivator maybe but the results aren't there, player selection is bamboozling at times and the system is a tire fire possession wise. If all the coaches with his tenure he's got the worst record I believe.

I know right?! Vigneault is the worst!

[doncherry]

My two cents..... Management Absolutely needs to keep their eye on every possible upgrade, but for me, despite the disappointing season you don't dump Hartley yet.

Pros-

Hartley has won at almost every level here has coached, that counts for me.

Last season he coached our group to the playoffs and plenty of us "boblieved"

Cons-

Special teams- this point should have double value because the team failed here in PK and PP

Inability to adapt- why continue with the same system when it it is not working and seems to be picked up/covered by opposition?


I have no desire to make changes for the sake of change, especially when it is not clear that the replacement is an upgrade. The Flames young players generally are improving under the current staff, and that is what is important at this stage of the rebuild.

Yes, Bob should now be on a short leash, but let's see what next season brings.

[stone hands]

I dont mind Hartley

The eliminator is good at scoring series winning goals but absolutely awful at coaching special teams

[browna]

Be tough to see D. Sutter coming back. Edwards lead the charge to push him out and didn't do his brother much favours either. No matter if Murray is is residing in Britannia or in Chelsea, too much history there, but I bet Burke would love to get an old school guy that gets results, to get Darryl if he'd want to come back closer to home. I think would be a great fit as a coach for this roster as it matures.

And warm up the Hitchcock rumors if the Blues blow it. We can worry about his playoff record when he gets us there, which he's proven he can do in the regular season and beyond, well before St Louis, through his career.

Hartley is not going to be the coach when this team turns the corner. He did impress Burke in his first full year under Burke and then a playoff spot to boot last season, but it can be argued, through all the decisions he made and the style he plays, the special teams disaster that was this season, and how he treats players, that his success was just as an outlier last year as the teams success.

As I said previously, if there is that guy that Treliving and Burke pops available, maybe a year or so ahead of their planned schedule, they make that move this offseason to get that coach who they think will take the team to the next level (with Trelivings help on the roster side). Otherwise Hartley has next year or part of next year to show improvement or he may not be the coach in a calender year from now.

[Vulcan]

Yeah, I think Hartley deserves to at least start next season. If he stays in the playoff race he should last but if in the end the team doesn't make it, he should be gone next summer.

[dino7c]

Jesus Christ himself behind the bench couldn't have made the playoffs with the goal tending last season...Hartley deserves the start of the year at the very least

[oldschoolcalgary]

so, while i am supportive of Hartley and believe that last season was more the result of terrible goaltending (and the GM's roll of the dice that these guys could platoon like they did the year before), there looks like there might be a chance that Hitchcock is available if the Blue blow this series to Chicago...

If that's the case, should we fire Hartley and hire Hitchcock?

I am sort of leaning to yes... but am curious as to what others think...

[Cali Panthers Fan]

People always seem to talk about Hitchcock being a great coach, but I don't always see it. He's meticulous with defensive detail and line matching, but his teams never seem inspired to do anything great. Even when he has teams with lots of talent, they often fall short.

On the other hand, Hartley isn't the strongest systems-wise, but he isn't an idiot either. He makes a plan based on the personnel he's given, and then sticks with it. He sticks with players longer because he believes that if you've proven yourself worthwhile in the past, it doesn't do anything for the player to beat them down when they make mistakes now and then. That can lead to players trusting themselves more and being able to bounce back when things don't go well (hence all the comeback wins a year ago). He also is tireless in terms of preaching work ethic, which is important when you're coaching a younger team. He's not a perfect coach (who is?), but he's not a bad coach, and there's a list of guys I could count on one hand who I'd rather have over Hartley without question (Trotz, Quenneville, Babcock), but after that, you're essentially splitting hairs on a pro/con list for anyone to replace Hartley.

Hitch scares me because he's made it past the 1st round of the playoffs just once in 10 years. Couldn't improve the Blue Jackets much in his tenure. Blues have been a massive playoff disappointment in his time there despite finishing 1st or 2nd in their division since his arrival. He always has great regular seasons, but he rarely gets his team to deliver in the playoffs. Last year they lost to the Minnesota Wild when they were clearly the superior team. No excuse for that.

I know I'll be in the minority, but I just don't like Hitchcock and I think he's kind of overrated.

[Major Major]

I'd be interested in hearing some specifics from the anti Hartley systems crowd. What is it in the flames game that you don't like? What part of the pp and pk do you not like?

[TheScorpion]

^ Uh, the fact that we're dead last in special teams? That we cannot seem to effectively continue sustained pressure on opposing sides?

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

^ Uh, the fact that we're dead last in special teams? That we cannot seem to effectively continue sustained pressure on opposing sides?

That really doesn't answer my question. Since January, they were quite good on pp and sustained pressure regularly. But regardless, what do they do on the pp or pk that stands out that other teams don't do?

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jesus Christ himself behind the bench couldn't have made the playoffs with the goal tending last season...Hartley deserves the start of the year at the very least

Not behind the bench, but between the pipes. Only the Lord saves more than Bernie Parent.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Major Major

That really doesn't answer my question. Since January, they were quite good on pp and sustained pressure regularly. But regardless, what do they do on the pp or pk that stands out that other teams don't do?

They finished last in the PK, no other team can claim to have done that this year.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Major Major

That really doesn't answer my question. Since January, they were quite good on pp and sustained pressure regularly. But regardless, what do they do on the pp or pk that stands out that other teams don't do?

That's what we want the coach to figure out

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by edslunch

That's what we want the coach to figure out

OK... So then if that information is not readily available to you, what makes you believe that coaching was the primary cause of poor special teams and GA rather than the dozens of other variables that could cause this?