Ramo vs Hiller vs Ortio: The Debate - Page 10 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Phanuthier · 10-20-2015, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hariton

Ramo had a very good game, but let one soft in. Problems go deeper than goalies.

Thats pretty us in the Fred Brathwaite era. Great, highlight reel goals in between softies. Unfortunately, softies are what kills you. Goaltending isn't a problem until you don't have it, then its a big problem. We don't have it right now... and its why you saw we were in the Martin Jones sweepstakes, or Lehner, or Talbot. Kiprusoff showed that its not the number of saves you make or the number of goals you let in, whats important is making the saves when its important. Flames management would rather roll the dice on a rookie to see if they can have the consistency because they knew Ramo and Hiller didn't have it; as vets, you know what you'll get with both, and the Flames obviously thought both of them don't have what the Flames need... otherwise, Ramo wouldn't have been plan D/E (the other is plan E/D). Maybe E/F depending what they think of Ortio.

madmike · 10-20-2015, 07:42 AM

I really don't understand why they don't at least give Ortio a chance. Neither Ramo nor Hiller has looked very good so far. They aren't the main reason for the 1-4 start, but neither has done anything to prevent the losses either.

Ortio certainly isn't going to develop at all riding the bench all year.

erikk3 · 10-20-2015, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmike

I really don't understand why they don't at least give Ortio a chance. Neither Ramo nor Hiller has looked very good so far. They aren't the main reason for the 1-4 start, but neither has done anything to prevent the losses either.

Ortio certainly isn't going to develop at all riding the bench all year.

He hasn't even had the luxury of breathing the crisp arena air from the bench yet. He's been trapped in the cologne filled press box

Erick Estrada · 10-20-2015, 09:37 AM

Hartley sounds like he doesn't want to play Ortio as he's just going to go back and forth between Hiller and Ramo until one of them takes the ball and runs with it. Strange and I wonder if he and the GM are not on the same page here. Certainly sounds like it. Given Hartley is carrying around a goaltender on his roster that he doesn't want to play.

Toonage · 10-20-2015, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hartley sounds like he doesn't want to play Ortio as he's just going to go back and forth between Hiller and Ramo until one of them takes the ball and runs with it. Strange and I wonder if he and the GM are not on the same page here. Certainly sounds like it. Given Hartley is carrying around a goaltender on his roster that he doesn't want to play.

I made a similar guess yesterday. I feel Hartley won't play Ortio until he is forced too. My guess is Treliving will have to make a move before Ortio sees the net.

saillias · 10-20-2015, 10:26 AM

So if 1-4 becomes 1-5, 1-6 and Hartley is still sticking to his guns on alternating the two vets, is he on the hot seat?

northcrunk · 10-20-2015, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

So if 1-4 becomes 1-5, 1-6 and Hartley is still sticking to his guns on alternating the two vets, is he on the hot seat?

Not sure if he will be in the hot seat with the GM but he will be in the hot seat with fans for sure.

Dr. Doom · 10-20-2015, 10:52 AM

There's something bothering me if it's true about the theory that they are giving Hiller/Ramo a 10 game window to prove who is #1.

Did we not see enough of both of them last season to know who should be given #1 here? Like what are we doing chewing another 10 game window to figure this crap out? To top it off, last season went back and forth quite a bit and if you even go through the 100s of Ramo/Hiller threads on this forum you will see a bunch of people that find a way to say Hiller is better and a bunch of people that find a way to say Ramo is better.

My point is - what the heck are these guys trying to prove here? This is GM'ing 101, and I say GM'ing because this is Treliving's problem more than it is Hartley's I mean signing Ramo made little to no sense and I'm not saying that because he's lesser of a goalie than Hiller frankly I don't care WHO this team goes with - but Hiller had term existing and leaving Ortio in the press box is absolutely bush league.

It's actually starting to make me think Treliving has some level of incompetence. To which I didn't think he had outside of Bollig and Raymond.

FBI · 10-20-2015, 11:16 AM

Here's what I don't understand. Not playing Ortio right now at all is a really stupid idea because let's say their scenario of being able to trade a goalie comes through.
Then yay we have veteran and Ortio. Now since Ortio has been riding the bench for so long let's say he plays craptastic. Now we send him back to minors and have one goalie.

We should be playing Ortio to see what we have there. Not the other way around. IMO anyway.

Erick Estrada · 10-20-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

So if 1-4 becomes 1-5, 1-6 and Hartley is still sticking to his guns on alternating the two vets, is he on the hot seat?

We can only speculate but it's possible that Treliving is on board with things and all is good. However Bob does things his way so it's possible they aren't in complete agreement over things. I don't think Hartley would truly be on the hot seat unless the season becomes a complete disaster.

Bandwagon In Flames · 10-20-2015, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI

Here's what I don't understand. Not playing Ortio right now at all is a really stupid idea because let's say their scenario of being able to trade a goalie comes through.
Then yay we have veteran and Ortio. Now since Ortio has been riding the bench for so long let's say he plays craptastic. Now we send him back to minors and have one goalie.

We should be playing Ortio to see what we have there. Not the other way around. IMO anyway.

The fact that they are not testing Ortio is why I'm leaning towards the situation that they are trying to trade Hiller or Ramo and showcasing them to the league.

I mean what else would it be? Say they finally figure out who is better between Hiller or Ramo after 10 games. Then what? Send Ortio on waivers because he's the 3rd string?

Management will be trading or waiving one of Hiller or Ramo. This rotation goes to prove that Ortio isn't fighting for his job right now. Issue is we could be out of contention by then if we're waiting for one of Hiller or Ramo to have a statement game before making the decision.

FBI · 10-20-2015, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

The fact that they are not testing Ortio is why I'm leaning towards the situation that they are trying to trade Hiller or Ramo and showcasing them to the league.

I mean what else would it be? Say they finally figure out who is better between Hiller or Ramo after 10 games. Then what? Send Ortio on waivers because he's the 3rd string?

Management will be trading or waiving one of Hiller or Ramo. This rotation goes to prove that Ortio isn't fighting for his job right now. Issue is we could be out of contention by then if we're waiting for one of Hiller or Ramo to have a statement game before making the decision.

So you think we are locked in to Ortio as our backup for better or for worse now?

pepper24 · 10-20-2015, 12:13 PM

Still don't understand the Ramo signing this summer. I like him as a goalie but would have been ok having Hiller starting and Ortio backing up.

Signing Ramo showed either a lack of confidence in Hiller, Ortio or both. Hopefully BT has a plan for this because it'll be tough to trade either Hiller or Ramo.

Bandwagon In Flames · 10-20-2015, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI

So you think we are locked in to Ortio as our backup for better or for worse now?

I think we are a rebuilding team that sees Rookie Joni Ortio as a part of said team. Ortio proved himself last season. It was limited action, but he was nothing short of dominant. He's NHL ready and managements hesitation to put him through waivers further exemplifies this.

What is happening now is asset management (or mismanagement if you'd prefer).

shermanator · 10-20-2015, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

So if 1-4 becomes 1-5, 1-6 and Hartley is still sticking to his guns on alternating the two vets, is he on the hot seat?

IMO, the Jack Adams winner being on the hot seat 6 or 7 games into his next season is absolutely ludicrous, regardless of the record.

Strange Brew · 10-20-2015, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I think we are a rebuilding team that sees Rookie Joni Ortio as a part of said team. Ortio proved himself last season. It was limited action, but he was nothing short of dominant. He's NHL ready and managements hesitation to put him through waivers further exemplifies this.

What is happening now is asset management (or mismanagement if you'd prefer).

I know you really like the guy and see his upside. But IMO, Ortio is far from a proven commodity.

Doesn't mean we should not give him a shot.

Fire of the Phoenix · 10-20-2015, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepper24

Still don't understand the Ramo signing this summer. I like him as a goalie but would have been ok having Hiller starting and Ortio backing up.

Signing Ramo showed either a lack of confidence in Hiller, Ortio or both. Hopefully BT has a plan for this because it'll be tough to trade either Hiller or Ramo.

My personal theory is that they had a trade for Hiller that fell through. Nothing else makes sense as Brad doesn't strike me a short term thinker who would put himself in a situation like this.

Bandwagon In Flames · 10-20-2015, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I know you really like the guy and see his upside. But IMO, Ortio is far from a proven commodity.

Doesn't mean we should not give him a shot.

Of course I do, as do 90% of the posters on this forum.

Just like I know how you dislike him, although I have no clue why.

Strange Brew · 10-20-2015, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Of course I do, as do 90% of the posters on this forum.

Just like I know how you dislike him, although I have no clue why.

No I like him and hope he gets a shot. I just don't agree with overrating him and calling him dominant. You'd think we were sitting Ken Dryden in the press box.

EVERLAST · 10-20-2015, 06:10 PM

On the fan this morning they talked about just finally just making a decision and playing Ortio .

IT WAS Eric Duha that suggested this as he reminded them of when we got Kipper from the sharks.
Kipper hadnt been playing allot and was kind of thrown into the fire without being truly tested and ready but DArryl Sutter knew what he was enough to just make the decision .

Bob needs to do this regardless of whether or not Tree can move a goalie or not .

This revolving goalie crap has to stop eventually right. Right???