MacLean: Oilers will win cup in next 2-4 years

[Hugh Jahrmes]

As much as we hate to admit it, there is likely phenomenal (relative) growth in edmonton during that period.

Unfortunately guys like Nikitin are only short term anchors, and the graduation/growth of Klefbom, Nurse, Reinhart, McDavid and Draisaitl would have any team pretty damn excited for the future.
My fear is that the regime change combined with a group of young guys coming up together may actually result in them playing FOR each other more. Nurse appears to not only be a very respectable talent, but he's s big boy, too - I don't see him, or proven winners like McDavid, staying silent when Eberle goes full pancake or Hall Hallsy's his way out of a fat "-" after getting completely burned on a play and giving up. All it's going to take with the amount of young talent (hard to believe, with how long some of their "kids" have been In the league) are a few polarizing personalities who haven't been neutered by the Oil system yet. Imo, they likely have the talent, and enough of it, coming up to turn the culture around, assuming the desire to win hasn't been completely stamped out of their current core. As Flames fans, we've seen how quickly things can turn around.

BoA is going to be epic though, and man would it be sweet if they ran with those orange monstrosities and this generation of unearned potential fails as miserably as the last. Would be a shame to have that as McDavid's legacy though.. Still wish he would have an advisor with the parts to publicly flog the team before the drsft.

To add; I see Chia Pet as a complete non-factor in any possible turnaround.. Their management changes were the best example of addition by subtraction I've ever seen. Sure, he may make a few decent moves, but I also think that the Hamilton situation (I fully back those speculating moving him to Calgary was a direct shot at Chia) will end up as one of many moves where we see Edmonton either overpaying or flat out rejected when it comes to meeting their glaring holes. After watching handouts that could have turned many respectable struggling franchises around be completely squandered, I'm sure GMs speak freely among themselves and voice their individual desire to avoid giving the next handot.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A bit of revisionist history there.

Chiarelli was having trouble signing Kessel.

Burke was interested and, instead of offer-sheeting him, basically offered Chiarelli the same compensation by way of trade.

Chiarelli had little choice (much like the Hamilton deal)

What saved Chiarelli's butt was that Toronto subsequently fell apart and those picks became a 2nd and a 9th (unexpected at the time of the trade).

And even with the 9th, Boston was very fortunate that Hamilton fell that far.

Chiarelli deserves no credit whatsoever for that trade, IMO.

So BT deserves no credit for getting Dougie either? I, for one, was not the least bit surprised that those picks were that high. TO was already a mess at the time. They had just recently fired their GM and BB was trying to rebuild by trading. Don't forget that Chia succeeded in building a championship team before they got into the cap trap, which, in all fairness, is not uncommon for championship teams.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

So BT deserves no credit for getting Dougie either? I, for one, was not the least bit surprised that those picks were that high. TO was already a mess at the time. They had just recently fired their GM and BB was trying to rebuild by trading. Don't forget that Chia succeeded in building a championship team before they got into the cap trap, which, in all fairness, is not uncommon for championship teams.

That does not follow from what I said.

Chiarelli settled for picks from a player he couldn't sign

Treliving took advantage of Boston's cap situation and turned some draft picks into a future #1 defenseman.

[OutOfTheCube]

Sidney Crosby had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever with 102 points, 6th in NHL scoring. Literally the best case scenario for a first overall pick. The Penguins finished with 58 points, dead last in the East. Second last in the East? The Capitals, with fellow rookie phenom Ovechkin having a 106 point rookie year.

Even two of the best rookie seasons in NHL history couldn't drag bad teams out of the depths. Only after the rest of the team got better did anything actually change. McDavid could get 100 points and lead the league in scoring while his team finishes in last place.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That does not follow from what I said.

Chiarelli settled for picks from a player he couldn't sign

Treliving took advantage of Boston's cap situation and turned some draft picks into a future #1 defenseman.

Chia didn't "settle" for picks. He took advantage of BB's impatience to get what he correctly expected to be 2 very good picks. That team was not a contender when he took over. It had 1 SC and 2 SCF appearances by the time he left. Stealing Chara from the Sens was masterful as well. I just hope McLellan's inability to get guys to perform in the playoffs holds the Oilers back, because going forward their personnel decisions won't be nearly as bone headed as Lowe's were. In fact, that might be perfect. Get the Oilers fans hopes up with amazing regular seasons and Art Ross trophies for McD, only to lose to us in the playoffs.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A bit of revisionist history there.

Chiarelli was having trouble signing Kessel.

Burke was interested and, instead of offer-sheeting him, basically offered Chiarelli the same compensation by way of trade.

Chiarelli had little choice (much like the Hamilton deal)

What saved Chiarelli's butt was that Toronto subsequently fell apart and those picks became a 2nd and a 9th (unexpected at the time of the trade).

And even with the 9th, Boston was very fortunate that Hamilton fell that far.

Chiarelli deserves no credit whatsoever for that trade, IMO.

Not a Chia fan but c'mon. There had to be more suitors for Kessel but he chose the Leafs offer. He deserves credit for making the deal and deserves the fault for ruining the Seguin trade after.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Chia didn't "settle" for picks. He took advantage of BB's impatience to get what he correctly expected to be 2 very good picks. That team was not a contender when he took over. It had 1 SC and 2 SCF appearances by the time he left. Stealing Chara from the Sens was masterful as well. I just hope McLellan's inability to get guys to perform in the playoffs holds the Oilers back, because going forward their personnel decisions won't be nearly as bone headed as Lowe's were. In fact, that might be perfect. Get the Oilers fans hopes up with amazing regular seasons and Art Ross trophies for McD, only to lose to us in the playoffs.

BB's impatience? Kessel was an offer sheet candidate and Burke offered Chiarelli a marginally better pick package than the offer sheet. Exactly the same situation as what Treliving offered to Sweeney.

Not sure how that makes it a good deal for Chiarelli but we can agree to disagree on that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Not a Chia fan but c'mon. There had to be more suitors for Kessel but he chose the Leafs offer. He deserves credit for making the deal and deserves the fault for ruining the Seguin trade after.

There may have been more. But the Leafs offer was the offer sheet comp, marginally improved. Exactly like the Hamilton situation.

Boston won the deal because Toronto then fell apart and turned it into a 2nd and a 9th.

But this has been debated a thousand times so I am out

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A bit of revisionist history there.

Chiarelli was having trouble signing Kessel.

Burke was interested and, instead of offer-sheeting him, basically offered Chiarelli the same compensation by way of trade.

Chiarelli had little choice (much like the Hamilton deal)

What saved Chiarelli's butt was that Toronto subsequently fell apart and those picks became a 2nd and a 9th (unexpected at the time of the trade).

And even with the 9th, Boston was very fortunate that Hamilton fell that far.

Chiarelli deserves no credit whatsoever for that trade, IMO.

Overall, Chia handled a similar situation in a much better way than Sweeney did, getting a much better result. Sweeney knew he was getting mid 1st and 2nd rounders. Chiarelli correctly suspected he was getting 2 high 1st rounders.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

BB's impatience? Kessel was an offer sheet candidate and Burke offered Chiarelli a marginally better pick package than the offer sheet. Exactly the same situation as what Treliving offered to Sweeney.

Not sure how that makes it a good deal for Chiarelli but we can agree to disagree on that.

Yes, BB was impatient. He was going for the quick fix where he needed to rebuild. Kind of like Sutter with us. What made the deal Chia got so much better than the one Sweeney got is that Chia was dealing with a crappy team and he knew it. As a result, he got high picks where Sweeney got mid round picks (and then he used them on reaches).

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Zach

He still knows more than anyone else here combined.

Nope

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Overall, Chia handled a similar situation in a much better way than Sweeney did, getting a much better result. Sweeney knew he was getting mid 1st and 2nd rounders. Chiarelli correctly suspected he was getting 2 high 1st rounders.

Chiarelli did fine with the package he received return for Kessel, but let's not pretend like his deal was some sort of ingenious master stroke. The return Sweeney received was terrible. What Chiarelli got back was completely unsurprising—apart from the fact that the 2010 pick was #2.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Yes, BB was impatient. He was going for the quick fix where he needed to rebuild. Kind of like Sutter with us. What made the deal Chia got so much better than the one Sweeney got is that Chia was dealing with a crappy team and he knew it. As a result, he got high picks where Sweeney got mid round picks (and then he used them on reaches).

So, how do you then interpret from this that Chiarelli is some sort of managerial savant?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There may have been more. But the Leafs offer was the offer sheet comp, marginally improved. Exactly like the Hamilton situation.

Boston won the deal because Toronto then fell apart and turned it into a 2nd and a 9th.

But this has been debated a thousand times so I am out

As has been shown Boston didn't win the deal. Dallas and Calgary are the winners.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A bit of revisionist history there.
What saved Chiarelli's butt was that Toronto subsequently fell apart and those picks became a 2nd and a 9th (unexpected at the time of the trade).

Toronto drafted 5th and 7th overall the two seasons prior.

They had already fallen apart by the time they traded for Kessel.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, how do you then interpret from this that Chiarelli is some sort of managerial savant?

Uh... he built a championship team?

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

As has been shown Boston didn't win the deal. Dallas and Calgary are the winners.

They are now. Toronto definitely wasn't the winner.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Uh... he built a championship team?

yes, the Stanley Cup is a pretty good indicator that you built a good team.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TX_Flame

Uh... he built a championship team?

By extension, this must mean that every managerial decision made by a SC winning GM is a brilliant decision. Like I said, I think Chiarelli's deal was fine, but entirely unspectacular. Good on him for building a winner, but this one trade had virtually nothing to do with the team he built that actually won.

In retrospect, his teams since 2010 certainly have their fair share of flaws and shortcomings. I have not been overwhelmed by Chiarelli's performance in his last three years in Boston, and was not especially awed by his first few months in Edmonton's head office.

[TX_Flame]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

By extension, this must mean that every managerial decision made by a SC winning GM is a brilliant decision. Like I said, I think Chiarelli's deal was fine, but entirely unspectacular. Good on him for building a winner, but this one trade had virtually nothing to do with the team he built that actually won.

In retrospect, his teams since 2010 certainly have their fair share of flaws and shortcomings. I have not been overwhelmed by Chiarelli's performance in his last three years in Boston, and was not especially awed by his first few months in Edmonton's head office.

My point overall is Chia>Lowe. I never said every decision he made was spectacular, nor that the Bruins had no flaws. In the salary cap Era you're not going to have All Stars at every position. For this year, I totally agree that BT has had a significantly better offseason, especially when you consider that McD had nothing to do with the Oilers braintrust's decision making skills.