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[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Azure

Dominating physical players open up room for smaller skilled guys. Raymond was effectively useless on his line because he isn't a physical player, plus the other guys on his line weren't physical either.

Ferland created room for his line, as did Jones when he actually decided to play physical.

Monahan is a big center who doesn't player overly physical at this point. If he wants to give Johnny more room he'll have to learn how to be more physical.

I'm not saying that everyone should hit people, but we should look at developing some big physical players if we want to compete with the Ducks of the NHL.

Against the Blues as well. At least they beat the Ducks a couple of times. The games against the Blues were embarrassing results.

[Monahan23]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

I wish we could trade Mason Raymond to the Devils for Mike Cammalleri - he would definitely help the 2nd PP unit (likely the 1st PP unit as well).

I wish we could trade Bollig for Lucic, but on both cases player we're trading for is miles ahead

[Bourque's Twin]

Wayne Simmonds is exactly the type of player this team needs.

Trading for him would not be easy, but after next season the Flyers needs to re-sign Vorachek, B. Schenn, Couturier, Raffl, and L. Schenn, and they will still have the Lecavalier and Umberger contracts.

Klimchuk, Jones, and a 2016 1st? Seems like a lot but Simmonds is only 26 years old and is pretty much a 30-goal scorer with size, grit, and heart.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Wayne Simmonds is exactly the type of player this team needs.

Trading for him would not be easy, but after next season the Flyers needs to re-sign Vorachek, B. Schenn, Couturier, Raffl, and L. Schenn, and they will still have the Lecavalier and Umberger contracts.

Klimchuk, Jones, and a 2016 1st? Seems like a lot but Simmonds is only 26 years old and is pretty much a 30-goal scorer with size, grit, and heart.

Wouldn't get it done. He isn't leaving Philly. Not unless its a massive overpayment.

[Fire]

Never trade a 1st rounder.

[heep223]

Like others, I think we need a true second pairing 2-way defenseman to play with Russell.

I think the best way to achieve this is to put together a trade package with Backlund as the main piece going the other way, after you sign him.

Then move Colborne to his natural position and boom, there you have a big C who can win faceoffs on the 3rd line and has pretty good speed and physicality. Kill 2 birds with one stone. Only problem is losing Backlund who I like but you have to give up to get.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I don't know exactly who, but I want 1 more top 6 winger who has experience and skill.

Someone to play the role that Glencross and Hudler did this season, as I think the kids can still use that guidance and Hudler is shouldering too much of it on his own now.

Someone like Simmonds would be awesome and could slot into the 2nd line to help Bennett/Colborne as a #2 Centre.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by heep223

Like others, I think we need a true second pairing 2-way defenseman to play with Russell.

I think the best way to achieve this is to put together a trade package with Backlund as the main piece going the other way, after you sign him.

Then move Colborne to his natural position and boom, there you have a big C who can win faceoffs on the 3rd line and has pretty good speed and physicality. Kill 2 birds with one stone. Only problem is losing Backlund who I like but you have to give up to get.

What's Wideman have to do to finally get the recognition he deserves? How was he inferior at any point during this season? Career year in Points, Goals, ice time. Statistically one of the best PK guys on the team.

The top 4 is locked and loaded. They need another #4 yes, but that one is going to be masked as a #5.

Also, I don't think Colborne is that good on faceoffs. Otherwise he would've been slotted in as one of the 4 centers at least. BUt I digress, Colborne is a key guy for the Flames moving forward, he can be slotted on any position at forward.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What's Wideman have to do to finally get the recognition he deserves? How was he inferior at any point during this season? Career year in Points, Goals, ice time. Statistically one of the best PK guys on the team.

The top 4 is locked and loaded. They need another #4 yes, but that one is going to be masked as a #5.

Also, I don't think Colborne is that good on faceoffs. Otherwise he would've been slotted in as one of the 4 centers at least. BUt I digress, Colborne is a key guy for the Flames moving forward, he can be slotted on any position at forward.

I like Wideman. I'm thinking more long term. Not sure what you mean that "the top 4 is locked and loaded.... but they need another #4".

Colborne was the best face-off man on the team this year at 52.4%.

Longer term, we need more young top 4 guys.

I think we should trade Backlund to address that because IMO Colborne would be a fantastic long term #3 C with size and face-off ability without sacrificing speed.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by heep223

I like Wideman. I'm thinking more long term. Not sure what you mean that "the top 4 is locked and loaded.... but they need another #4".

Colborne was the best face-off man on the team this year at 52.4%.

Longer term, we need more young top 4 guys.

I think we should trade Backlund to address that because IMO Colborne would be a fantastic long term #3 C with size and face-off ability without sacrificing speed.

The top 4 is locked and loaded. Wideman-Russell, Gio-Brodie. Acquire another top 4 but he sit in the #5 spot anchoring the third pairing. Thus balancing out the minutes between the top 6 instead of the top 4. Hence why I think a guy Erhoff would be a smart signing.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, people must still look at our top 4 D and feel underwhelmed for some reason.

Giordano -> 25:10, 0.79 ppg, +13
Brodie -> 25:12, 0.51 ppg, +15
Wideman -> 24:38, 0.70 ppg, +6
Russell -> 23:56, 0.43 ppg, +18

That is pretty dang FAR from underwhelming, that is unreal for a top 4 D group. Especially with how Russell and Wideman stepped up as a top pairing after Gio went down. I believe Russell produced almost 0.7 ppg from Gio's injury until being eliminated. You could argue that we have two #1 pairings with numbers like that.

I guess people are expecting some severe regression if they feel we need to upgrade that top 4 defense.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Wouldn't get it done. He isn't leaving Philly. Not unless its a massive overpayment.

That IS a massive overpayment.

Keep the assets. Grow from the inside.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by dammage79

What's Wideman have to do to finally get the recognition he deserves? How was he inferior at any point during this season? Career year in Points, Goals, ice time. Statistically one of the best PK guys on the team.

The top 4 is locked and loaded. They need another #4 yes, but that one is going to be masked as a #5.

THIS! Hit the nail on the head! The issue the team faced wasn't if Wideman was a legit 2nd pairing D, it was that with Gio going down, the big 3 were pressed into too many minutes - essentially they all played as top pairing D and the other guys made up the leftover minutes (not trying to diminish Engelland's effort though).

IMO for a team to win they need 5 top 4 D and 7-8 top 6 forwards - that way you have depth and balance in the lineup. And to have that amount of talent, you either need guys on ELCs or value contracts.

Wideman looks overpaid next to what Giordano, Brodie, Russell all make, but they are being underpaid big time.

[Saint Troy]

One word-Phil Kessel

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Saint Troy

One word-Phil Kessel

One word would be Philkessel. And you want Philkessel on the Flames? Wouldn't hurt, trade cost might though.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, people must still look at our top 4 D and feel underwhelmed for some reason.

Giordano -> 25:10, 0.79 ppg, +13
Brodie -> 25:12, 0.51 ppg, +15
Wideman -> 24:38, 0.70 ppg, +6
Russell -> 23:56, 0.43 ppg, +18

That is pretty dang FAR from underwhelming, that is unreal for a top 4 D group. Especially with how Russell and Wideman stepped up as a top pairing after Gio went down. I believe Russell produced almost 0.7 ppg from Gio's injury until being eliminated. You could argue that we have two #1 pairings with numbers like that.

I guess people are expecting some severe regression if they feel we need to upgrade that top 4 defense.

Eh, Wideman was a minus player for most of the season. His +/- shot up in the last 17 games of the season where the Monahan line was simply beyond elite. Credit to him for staying afloat, but does it excuse the other 63 games worth of breakdowns?

We have a good top 3 in Gio/Brodie/Russell. All these guys were double digits in +/- ALL season, not just after one hot stretch. Wideman is a solid player, but the team is going to benefit from adding a guy who can push him down the lineup and push possession in a positive direction from the second pairing.

[GioforPM]

Colborne is a decent faceoff guy, especially considering his wrist injury. Of course, his faceoff stats are pretty limited. I think the issue was more with the rest of his game as a centre, defensively and offensively. But if he can improve that, sure, he's a possibility at centre. If he and Shore pan out that's to bigger guys who can play centre.

Of course, Colborne's offence may take an uptick in which case you don't want him on the third line, unless it's more like a 2B.

[FlamesFanFromBC]

Jonathan Toews and/or John Tavares

[mile]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, people must still look at our top 4 D and feel underwhelmed for some reason.

Giordano -> 25:10, 0.79 ppg, +13
Brodie -> 25:12, 0.51 ppg, +15
Wideman -> 24:38, 0.70 ppg, +6
Russell -> 23:56, 0.43 ppg, +18

That is pretty dang FAR from underwhelming, that is unreal for a top 4 D group. Especially with how Russell and Wideman stepped up as a top pairing after Gio went down. I believe Russell produced almost 0.7 ppg from Gio's injury until being eliminated. You could argue that we have two #1 pairings with numbers like that.

I guess people are expecting some severe regression if they feel we need to upgrade that top 4 defense.

I don't know, those numbers do look great but I still feel like our defense is far too easy to play against and its just not good enough. Whether that has to do with our current top 4 being too weak or our #5/6 guys being too weak is the question.

Is the solution getting capable #5/6 guys who can balance out the minutes for the current top 4, or upgrading the top 4 and bumping one of Russell/Wideman down to a #5 role?

After watching the playoffs my gut tells me that our top 4 needs a big, minute-eating, all-around blueliner. Doesn't need to be a big hitter or overly physical, but someone who will use their size to overshadow forwards and make our defense tougher to play against.

[GioforPM]

I agree with the fact the top 4 performed admirably. But the Ducks showed that they weren't big or strong enough down low in the D zone. Now, Gio may have helped that, but a Regher would have won a bunch of those board battles. Even a Musil type would help.