Engelland has zero puck skills and agility. Cory Sarich looks like a Paul Coffey compared to him. Yes, he's picked up his defensive zone awareness and physicality, and has done better in terms of trying to get pucks out with regularity, but he's barely a 3rd pairing defenseman in the current NHL. If you're going to succeed in the new fast-paced, skilled NHL, all 6 defensemen need to be able to skate a puck out of harm's way, or at least do more than ice it when pressured.
Lots of character and effort, but his talent is nearly at Brian McGrattan levels. I'd be happy with him as a 7th d-man going forward, but having him on our second pairing is very much less than ideal.
This is not to say I don't appreciate what he's done in the absence of Giordano, but having him on the 2nd pair points to the fact that we still seriously need to upgrade our defense, especially NHL level depth.
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Can someone calculate how many PPs for and against CGY and LA had in the last 10 games?
We are not getting to the foul line very much.
In the last 10 games, Calgary has had 50.8 minutes of pp time vs 34 minutes shorthanded, and LA has had 43.7 pp minutes vs 53.7 shorthanded.
On Saturday vs the Blue Jackets, the flames went 1/5, while the Jackets went 0/0. It's not really that bad just a bad night reffing accentuated by the importance of the game
Last edited by Street Pharmacist; 03-24-2015 at 09:07 AM.
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In the last 10 games, Calgary has had 50.8 minutes of pp time vs 34 minutes shorthanded, and LA has had 43.7 pp minutes vs 53.7 shorthanded.
On Saturday vs the Blue Jackets, the flames went 1/5, while the Jackets went 0/0. It's not really that bad just a bad night reffing accentuated by the importance of the game
The Blue Jackets game felt like such awful, awful reffing. Weird that Calgary was never actually short handed, haha.
Still, that embellishment call on Johnny was really bad. Lots of questionable icing/offside calls too.
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Originally Posted by CroFlames
Before you call me a pessimist or a downer, the Flames made me this way. Blame them.
It's also hillarious that people keep knocking Engelland but the truth is when that pair gets into defensive zone trouble it's often because Brodie made an ill advised aggressive error. When he played with Gio, it's true Gio was more capable of covering that up for him, but it's funny how the fans blame Engelland for him not being able to cover up for Brodie's errors as much as Gio, versus blaming Brodie for the mistake.
All I'm hearing from this is that no, Engelland can't handle these responsibilities, and I agree. Brodie just avoiding making those aggressive plays doesn't help the team at all.
And frankly Brodie has spent a lot of time covering for Gio. There's a reason his production stalled mid-season while Gio's kept pace.
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Originally Posted by JobHopper
The thing is, my posts, thoughts and insights may be my opinions but they're also quite factual.
I know we were all like "time to move on" when Iginla and Tanguay left, but I think they'd look good on our second line right now.
A big no can do to the Tanguay portion of this statement (and to a lesser extent Iginla). This team is about sacrifice and laying it all on the line when it really matters...the polar opposite of Tanguay's game.
Only thing is the head scratch worthy reffing. Offiside? Too many men? Hooks called one way and not the other. I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, but holy crap.
I was pretty pissed when we got called for a hook not 20 seconds after the Avs got away with an even more egregious hook. Watching Colorado delay the game over and over and over again after icings without so much as a warning was frustrating too.
But that off-side call was so bad that even Steve effing Kozari went over to the linesman to tell him he screwed up.
That said, hard to buy into a conspiracy theory when our last game saw us have five powerplays to zero penalty kills.
I was pretty pissed when we got called for a hook not 20 seconds after the Avs got away with an even more egregious hook. Watching Colorado delay the game over and over and over again after icings without so much as a warning was frustrating too.
But that off-side call was so bad that even Steve effing Kozari went over to the linesman to tell him he screwed up.
That said, hard to buy into a conspiracy theory when our last game saw us have five powerplays to zero penalty kills.
Agreed. Its easy to declare that the fix is in when certain trends emerge, but we have had calls go our way too. Its the inconsistency that gets me.
It was never more apparent than the missed "too many men" call. Not less than one week ago we played in Colorado against the very same team and arguably the turning point in that game was an extremely chintzy too many men call that resulted in a Power Play on which the Avs scored and then never looked back. Its Poetic injustice.
Engelland has zero puck skills and agility. Cory Sarich looks like a Paul Coffey compared to him. Yes, he's picked up his defensive zone awareness and physicality, and has done better in terms of trying to get pucks out with regularity, but he's barely a 3rd pairing defenseman in the current NHL. If you're going to succeed in the new fast-paced, skilled NHL, all 6 defensemen need to be able to skate a puck out of harm's way, or at least do more than ice it when pressured.
Lots of character and effort, but his talent is nearly at Brian McGrattan levels. I'd be happy with him as a 7th d-man going forward, but having him on our second pairing is very much less than ideal.
This is not to say I don't appreciate what he's done in the absence of Giordano, but having him on the 2nd pair points to the fact that we still seriously need to upgrade our defense, especially NHL level depth.
You are drastically underrating Engelland. I agree he's a 3rd pairing guy, and he's a physical defensive specialist, not a puck mover, but he is much better than Cory Sarich was near the end of his tenure here playing a similar role.
Agreed, he's out of his element being promoted to 2nd pair with Brodie, especiall when it's kind of a 1B pair. Hartley has relied on Wide's and Russell as top pair, but he's still using Engelland and Brodie in situations he likely wouldn't if we had our true number 1 pairing. I don't think this fan base should sell short that part of the reason we aren't missing Gio AS MUCH as we might have thought is for sure the stellar step up by Wideman and Russell, but also Engelland.
Engelland is a good 3rd pairing guy on any team in this league IMO, not just a 7. Problem in Calgary early on was he was paired with Smid, who is also a good 3rd pairing guy, but too similar game style to Engelland. They both have the same strengths and weaknesses, which is why, both of those guys actually work better with Diaz on that pairing, even though Diaz isn't actually as good as either IMO as an overall player, he's just a more complimentary guy to both of them.
When the canucks won the two President's Cups, their fans were the poster children for whining about refs. If they won it was because of the the players, and if they lost it was because of the refs and Bettman. The hilarious twitter account @lolvancouver sprung up to make fun of these whiners. They haven't changed much either.
We are getting dangerously close to this lately. There is a ton of whining about the refs from our fan base, and the majority of it is unwarranted. There is no rule that says penalties have to be equal, or even close, during a game. Shots, hits, goals, penalties, etc. are all going to vary. Refs and linesmen miss calls; it happens. It sucks when it goes against you, but these things normally even out. When complaining about all the calls that went against Calgary, remember that they were the benefactors of some calls too. Sometimes the other team just outplays Calgary, and it has nothing to do with the refs. Let's not be the fans who blame the refs all the time. We're better than that.
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the officials were absolutely awful last night as they were in the last game against the Avs
how do you not call the hook on Hudler? Jooris pushed into the net?
sometimes fans are just calling a spade a spade
It was the first time in a while I left a game feeling like the refs were intentionally brutal. Two flagrant too many men on the ice calls missed by all 4 officials.............. I don't know, seems fishy.
I'm certain there's no fix, but that they are incompetent. The issue is that there is no standard. The way referees will let some games be really loose with very few calls and some others they'll call nearly everything.
It's B.S. every game should be reffed the exact same, playoff game, cup championship or preseason. A penalty is a penalty, do your damn jobs. Interference should always be called as should hooking but there's so much subjectivity it's annoying. Stop with the makeup calls, stop with the grey areas just ref the damn game as if they know what the rules are.
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Too bad the fan base has such an under appreciation for just how well Engelland has stepped up to play a greater role on this club due to injury and that his good play has allowed Brodie to still be able to make offensive plays.
When the canucks won the two President's Cups, their fans were the poster children for whining about refs. If they won it was because of the the players, and if they lost it was because of the refs and Bettman. The hilarious twitter account @lolvancouver sprung up to make fun of these whiners. They haven't changed much either.
We are getting dangerously close to this lately. There is a ton of whining about the refs from our fan base, and the majority of it is unwarranted. There is no rule that says penalties have to be equal, or even close, during a game. Shots, hits, goals, penalties, etc. are all going to vary. Refs and linesmen miss calls; it happens. It sucks when it goes against you, but these things normally even out. When complaining about all the calls that went against Calgary, remember that they were the benefactors of some calls too. Sometimes the other team just outplays Calgary, and it has nothing to do with the refs. Let's not be the fans who blame the refs all the time. We're better than that.
I haven't seen anyone blame the refs for a loss yet.
If the refs sucked, they sucked. Nothing wrong with telling it like it is.
I will say that I didn't think the reffing was that bad against the Blue Jackets, especially for us. I thought Columbus got hosed.
