[PGT] Flames fall to TB 5-2

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Then you must understand why I wonder why people were complaining about his game last night.

Not really. Because I saw it as just comments, pro and con, about the game, including him. He had good and bad points.

Like I said, his best game so far. The peripheral play issues were lessened, and his energy was higher. He still made some basic errors and didn't play as physically as his linemates, or the guys further up the chart. I guess at the end of the day - was it better than his "competition" for a spot or minutes? And was it good enough to keep him in when the injured guys return?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, I'm sure he's wondering because what you describe is not a good performance. Showing up to the big track meet as a favored competitor, then going home with a participant ribbon is not a good performance. When Josh Jooris puts you to shame in every aspect of the game you have some 'splainin' to do.

ok

so not good enough that he had among the best corsi numbers on the team last night.

But yeah, just a participation ribbon

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by timbit

IMO, that is the THE bottom line for Sven.

That is who he is competing against for ice time.

He is a distant 4th at the moment

Soon to be a distant 5th? When Ferland comes back that is just more competition. Frankly, Ferland showed enough in his 9:43 of ice time to get an extended look. Very impressive debut and deserves a lot more time. Because of these young guys stepping up, Baertschi is slipping into organizational obscurity. Way too many guys coming in and playing like they don't want to let the chance slip away. Great problem for the team to have!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

ok

so not good enough that he had among the best corsi numbers on the team last night.

But yeah, just a participant ribbon

The Oilers have great CORSI numbers. That is the NHL's participant ribbon!

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not really. Because I saw it as just comments, pro and con, about the game, including him. He had good and bad points.

Like I said, his best game so far. The peripheral play issues were lessened, and his energy was higher. He still made some basic errors and didn't play as physically as his linemates, or the guys further up the chart. I guess at the end of the day - was it better than his "competition" for a spot or minutes? And was it good enough to keep him in when the injured guys return?

So, best game through 3, improved on every aspect of the game, had strong underlying numbers, and pushed the play forward as much as any other forward, yet he's still the first head people go for?

How can anyone thrive under a guillotine?

[nik-]

I just don't understand why he warranted pretty much being benched last night. Because of an icing? People may think some have tinfoil hats when it comes to Hartley's treatment of Sven, but nights like last night don't help.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How can anyone thrive under a guillotine?

Ask Gaudreau, Granlund and Jooris. Poor guys have managed to drag the same guillotine around the ice and still look like they belong.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by nik-

I just don't understand why he warranted pretty much being benched last night. Because of an icing? People may think some have tinfoil hats when it comes to Hartley's treatment of Sven, but nights like last night don't help.

He didn't get benched. He played all 3 periods. He didn't lose minutes because of the icing - he played quite a bit after that.

He played less in the 3rd because that's when 4th liners or guys not on special teams get less ice time. Bouma got similar ice time, and he's a Hartley favorite.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

Ask Gaudreau, Granlund and Jooris. Poor guys have managed to drag the same guillotine around the ice and still look like they belong.

Uh, they really aren't comparable to how people are commenting on Sven.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Uh, they really aren't comparable to how people are commenting on Sven.

Because they've responded better. The "guillotine" is the pressure of performing to be called up (other than Johnny), being a rookie and potential demotion.

It's not being criticized. What have the others done worthy of criticism? Note that when I suggested JG had a couple off nights I was accused of "bashing" him.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by nik-

I just don't understand why he warranted pretty much being benched last night. Because of an icing? People may think some have tinfoil hats when it comes to Hartley's treatment of Sven, but nights like last night don't help.

As others have pointed out, why would Hartley or any coach play Sven in the 3rd when the game is on line. He's not a go to guy for this club, nor should he be. Just like was mentioned, the other players that at the bottom of this teams forward depth chart, especially when chasing from behind got the same treatment.

[GioforPM]

I guess the question is - do you agree with the "benching" of Bouma?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So, best game through 3, improved on every aspect of the game, had strong underlying numbers, and pushed the play forward as much as any other forward, yet he's still the first head people go for?

How can anyone thrive under a guillotine?

You've really hit a new level of excuse setting for Sven. If the other "young" players aren't the right comparibles for Sven then who the hell is? All those guys are basically in the exact same spot in their careers as him, looking to do the same thing. If not them, who should we be comparing him too? It's very very confusing.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Uh, they really aren't comparable to how people are commenting on Sven.

How does "how people are commenting on Sven" have anything to do with Sven's on ice performance compared to Jouris, Gaudreau and Granlund, who have outplayed Sven since the start of camp.

Did they have less pressure to win a job and keep it than Sven?

They have overcome the obstacles.

Sven has not, up to this point.

That is why he is clearly beneath them on the depth chart.

Deservingly so, all the way around.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Uh, they really aren't comparable to how people are commenting on Sven.

Really? Seriously? I guess there's only one thing left for this conversation.



Leave wee Sven alone!!!

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by timbit

How does "how people are commenting on Sven" have anything to do with Sven's on ice performance compared to Jouris, Gaudreau and Granlund, who have outplayed Sven since the start of camp.

Did they have less pressure to win a job and keep it than Sven?

They have overcome the obstacles.

Sven has not, up to this point.

That is why he is clearly beneath them on the depth chart.

Deservingly so, all the way around.

I'm talking about posters on this forum and their thoughts on Baertschi. What management or the coaches think about Sven is a whole different discussion altgoether

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Because they've responded better. The "guillotine" is the pressure of performing to be called up (other than Johnny), being a rookie and potential demotion.

It's not being criticized. What have the others done worthy of criticism? Note that when I suggested JG had a couple off nights I was accused of "bashing" him.

Baertschi was better than Granlund last night. By most reports other than just myself, Sven played very well.

So why did the usual suspects choose to chastise him even further? Why this game? Why have their criticisms of his game become even more microscopic? Is it impossible to praise his game at all?

It's the same people. Every time. I want to know why there is such a vocal group of posters who make it their duty, who are so hellbent on letting everyone know every little single mistake that Baertschi made in his 11 minutes of ice time. It doesn't matter that he had a Corsi of 71% last night, or that he was actually creating chances. And these other minute details push him into the negative. And with all the puck battles he lost last night and how soft we're told he is, I find it odd that he had such strong possession numbers.

It has become clockwork. It's odd. It doesn't make sense to me.

[GioforPM]

So why did the usual suspects choose to chastise him even further? Why this game? Why have their criticisms of his game become even more microscopic? Is it impossible to praise his game at all?

By usual suspects do you mean the TV and radio guys, because they all made the same comments about the pros and cons of his game. And everyone who's posted said he played a better game. They just don't think it was as magical as you do, nor do they see the Hartley vendetta you suggest.

I would disagree that his game was better than Granlund overall.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So why did the usual suspects choose to chastise him even further? Why this game? Why have their criticisms of his game become even more microscopic? Is it impossible to praise his game at all?

By usual suspects do you mean the TV and radio guys, because they all made the same comments about the pros and cons of his game. And everyone who's posted said he played a better game. They just don't think it was as magical as you do, nor do they see the Hartley vendetta you suggest.

I would disagree that his game was better than Granlund overall.

Who on the radio or TV criticized his game yesterday?

[GioforPM]

Loubo made the same criticism about his physical play and especially noted the icing. He said something to the effect of "He was really elevating his play and then he does that - it drives coaches crazy."

The panel on the TV said the same thing between the 1st and 2nd periods, and went to the point of replaying the icing.

[Ashasx]

So there we have it.

icing call. bad game.

Doesn't matter what else positive he could have done.

Still doesn't answer my question regardless.