2014-2015 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[Flickered Flame]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Right, but how do you go to the fans in Oakland and say "Come out pay money to watch us play when since the trade deadline last year we've traded away our two best offensive players on the team, and the top higher end pitchers we traded for are also going to be gone". It's a difficult sell right?

And that's before you remember they play in the worst or second worst (the Big O) sports stadium in North America. I get that Billy is always playing the long game because of their budget constraints, but it's pretty impossible to build a fanbase when any time you might have a window to win, it gets slammed shut by your owners.

This case seems particularly odd as Donaldson is on a very good contract for a few years yet. This just seems like making moves for the sake of making moves. Or maybe Billy saw the second half collapse last year and decided this team wasn't anywhere close to winning anything and is re-tooling for a few years from now. But that's still not going to help build their fanbase.

This is business as usual in Oakland.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

So at the moment we have:

1) Reyes - SS
2) Donaldson - 3B
3) Bautista - RF
4) EE - 1B
5) Martin - C
6) Smoak/Valencia - DH
7) Pompey - CF
8) Pillar - LF
9) Goins/Izturis - 2B

SP) Buehrle
SP) Dickey
SP) Stroman
SP) Hutchison
SP) Happ/Estrada etc.

A lot to like with that lineup, but the bottom third of the order is potentially quite weak, and it would be really nice to add another decent SP too.

I don't know about adding another pitcher - but I think the Jays want Sanchez in the rotation and Norris as the first call up.

I could see them using Happ to address some of their outstanding holes though. It would be nice to see one of Dickey or Buerhle moved if only for the pay flexibility and possible return.

[Flickered Flame]

AA was on MLB radio this morning, he said his next priorities are LF, 2B and relief pitching.

As an outsider, without drastically improving the 'pen, the Jays will be good but not great.

[Caged Great]

The pen is easier to fix without spending a bunch. If need be, they could make Sanchez the closer. It's not a huge problem even though it's a bit of a mess.

Izturis is adequate but unspectacular, and Travis might make the squad out of camp. Not ideal, but not a huge deal either.

LF/DH is probably the biggest area of need outside of a starter.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Right, but how do you go to the fans in Oakland and say "Come out pay money to watch us play when since the trade deadline last year we've traded away our two best offensive players on the team, and the top higher end pitchers we traded for are also going to be gone". It's a difficult sell right?

And that's before you remember they play in the worst or second worst (the Big O) sports stadium in North America. I get that Billy is always playing the long game because of their budget constraints, but it's pretty impossible to build a fanbase when any time you might have a window to win, it gets slammed shut by your owners.

This case seems particularly odd as Donaldson is on a very good contract for a few years yet. This just seems like making moves for the sake of making moves. Or maybe Billy saw the second half collapse last year and decided this team wasn't anywhere close to winning anything and is re-tooling for a few years from now. But that's still not going to help build their fanbase.

If you ask me, there are two things that Beane could be thinking with the deal. Firstly, he's thinking long term. If the A's next timeline to win is 2 years down the road, then dealing for Lawrie makes sense to him. If Lawrie doesn't work out he probably figures he can deal him, and he hauled enough prospects to hope one or more work out. Second thing he could be thinking, is that because Donaldson was a late bloomer, perhaps he'll somehow regress to where he was before. I hope not, but these guys sometimes have a keen eye and he Beane seen something wrong about Donaldson's swing, maybe he thought he could deal him for some value now.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

This is business as usual in Oakland.

Yeah, and as far as being an A's fan, you've learned not to get attached to players as much as other teams. Beane has demonstrated over and over that his plans generally work out in building a team that's in contention for the playoffs at least every couple years, and makes it every few years, and as a fan, that's all you can ask to get excited for.

4 for 1 means that the collective long term benefit from the 4 likely gets close to the loss of the 1 you're giving up, and that's assuming the 1 your giving up keeps up their stats. And long term benefit is that maybe Lawrie doesn't get much better, but maybe the pitchers end up having a great year, and then one of them gets tossed in a deal asdecent trade value as part of package, the return of which includes a player and a pick trade to get someone else that turns out to be a win, helping the A's get to the playoffs again over the next couple years. Rinse and repeat.

Guessing both teams will be happy with the return in 2-3 years, but the Jays have a higher risk/reward in that time period.

[Flickered Flame]

Rosenthal just tweeted that the Jays are looking at Alberto Callaspo as a cheap 2nd base option.

[bluejays]

I'm not against Callaspo, and understand it takes two to make a deal, but I don't know why teams don't go for addressing position scarcity? Elite SP, C, and 2B are rarely available and hard to find, and when you do have those guys, you have a real advantage over others. What are the chances the Jays could get Jose Altuve or Howie Kendrick?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

AA was on MLB radio this morning, he said his next priorities are LF, 2B and relief pitching.

In related news water still wet and the sky still blue. I jest, but the jays needs today are the same as they were when the offseason started all the upgrades they've made were to area's that they relatively were set at already (3B & C).

The Jays top need is an average or better 2B (average in all regards... Bat & D) and then a lefty bat with some power that can field a position. The line-up has become to right heavy with the departure of Melky, Colby, Lind, and almost certainly Navarro... all guys who hit either left or switch. We're gaining one back in the switch-hitting Pompey (whose a wildcard as far as expected performance goes).

My main targets if I were AA would be Jed Lowrie in free agency for 2B (Switch hitter, plays decent (if unspectacular) D as a SS so likely better as a 2B, and has a decent if unspectacular bat) and Michael Saunders via trade for LF (Bonus points... he's Canadian).

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

As an outsider, without drastically improving the 'pen, the Jays will be good but not great.

Meh, reliever performance is so variable. I'd wait out the market personally. Really the Jays aren't that hard up in the pen... they have a longman RH (Estrada), a high leverage lefty (Cecil) a loogy (Loup), a mid-relief RH (Delabar) a mid-relief/multi-inning lefty (Jenkins). That only leaves a couple of holes and they have a strong (if not ideal) option for one of them in Sanchez (only not ideal because you want to give him a chance to be a starter).

Originally Posted by fleury

What are the chances the Jays could get Jose Altuve or Howie Kendrick?

Virtually zero. IIRC Kendrick already blocked a trade with the Jays.

[Harry Lime]

I see what most people are suggesting as 'needs' might actually be more of a 'want' situation. Devon Travis, Pompey and Dirks all have various scouting reports putting them at average to plus defensively. They are all platooned with Izturis, Pillar and Mayberry respectively in case any of them falter too badly. This leaves room for a rookie at 2B and CF to be a pleasant surprise, while minimizing the risk.

The only 'needs' that I can see are a 1B/DH, because Smoak may or may not rebound, and a high leverage/closer type along the lines of Miller.

That doesn't mean that the list of 'wants' don't have merit, but things are in better shape now than they were last year. Navarro was a nightmare at pitchframing, and in comes one of the best in the league at that skill. Lawrie left a gaping hole (Fransisco) at 3B every time he was injured, which was a lot. Donaldson is an upgrade of incredible proportion, and no history of injury.

Navarro and possibly Happ could see themselves swapped for a 1B/Triple A prospect soon, and pulling in a Miller, I think that the position the Jay are in is much more positive than it has been in a very long time.

To say nothing of the benefit of Russell and Donaldson in locker room, and the professional atmosphere that will ensue.

Looking more forward to this season than any in a very long while.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I see what most people are suggesting as 'needs' might actually be more of a 'want' situation.

I can buy that argument with regards to LF... the worst case scenario is a Dirks/Mayberry Platoon and that isn't completely awful (but not as good as Melky/Aoki/Saunders). But with regards to the 2B situation... no, when your default options are either a guy that missed almost all of last year and the year before was amoung the worst players in MLB (Izturis) or a 24 year old who hasn't yet sniffed anything higher then AA ball (Travis) it's definetly a 'need'.

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Navarro and possibly Happ could see themselves swapped for a 1B/Triple A prospect soon.

Navarro is almost certainly gone but I'd rather keep Happ... there is no such thing as too much starting pitching.

[Harry Lime]

Point made. I'm holding out hope that we can get a SS out of Chicago, and move Reyes to 2B, but I almost don't want to say it out loud in case it jinxes it. If they see Estrada as a SP, then I see Happ becoming expendable with Sanchez and Norris knocking on the door as early or midseason callups. I wouldn't be upset either way, but if it nets us a better return in where Navarro ends up...

[ben voyonsdonc]

Blue Jays non tender Smoak, Mayberry Jr and Dirks. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...erry-jr-smoak/

I'm wondering what Anthopoulos has up his sleeve because this seems risky to me.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I'm wondering what Anthopoulos has up his sleeve because this seems risky to me.

Must have several somethings... Anthopoulos doesn't strike me as a guy that's all that eager to set $175K on fire (Smoak option cost) and he just jettisoned the best internal fallback option he had for LF (Dirks/Mayberry). And despite picking up arguably the best 3B in baseball he tendered the platoon bat 3B Valencia?

Gotta say unless the proverbial other shoe is about to drop not a lot makes sense about today.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Blue Jays non tender Smoak, Mayberry Jr and Dirks. http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb...erry-jr-smoak/

I'm wondering what Anthopoulos has up his sleeve because this seems risky to me.

This is basically the same thing as not qualifying an RFA much like the Flames did with Byron. They are going to likely keep them, it's just a matter of doing the paperwork.

At worst, they'll save 6 million that they would've had to spend that they can allocate elsewhere.

[Senator Clay Davis]

One industry source says he "knew" the Athletics would trade Josh Donaldson this winter, no matter how little baseball sense it made, because the All-Star and Beane were "at war" by season's end.

Multiple sources cite a verbal altercation between the two after Donaldson told manager Bob Melvin he needed a couple of days off after Oakland had played several days in a row. The story goes, Beane told Donaldson if he needed a couple of days off, the club should put him on the disabled list, and that made Donaldson unhappy.

While both Donaldson and Beane downplayed the incident in a couple of texts to the San Francisco Chronicle's terrific baseball writer, John Shea, the industry source described a different scenario to Bleacher Report.

"Donaldson told the manager he needed a blow, and [Bob] Melvin said, 'You got it,' " the source said. "Then that night's lineup came out and Billy asked, 'Where's Donaldson?' "

When told what happened, the source says, an angry Beane demanded that Melvin put Donaldson back into the lineup.

"They got into it in the coach's office," the source says, describing a scene in which Beane lit into Donaldson, with the third baseman reiterating his need for a day off and petulantly calling Beane "Billy Boy."

"Nobody talks to Billy that way," the source said. "It did not surprise me in the least that he got rid of Donaldson."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-now-and-later

[nik-]

haha ... Billy Boy.

[Harry Lime]

Not really here or there, but Everth Cabrera was non-tendered and is on his way out of San Diego. Judging from his tweets, they are not going to attempt to re sign him. He had a horrible year last year, coming off of a biogenisis suspension, and then a DUI for marijuana. He does seem committed to turning the corner, and he does have the tools, at what would be a very low cost.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Not really here or there, but Everth Cabrera was non-tendered and is on his way out of San Diego. Judging from his tweets, they are not going to attempt to re sign him. He had a horrible year last year, coming off of a biogenisis suspension, and then a DUI for marijuana. He does seem committed to turning the corner, and he does have the tools, at what would be a very low cost.

The guy was a difference maker two years ago as well. I wonder if he or Reyes would switch to 2B. I like guys with a checkered past as long as they are committed to change. A nice cheap option that they can cut ties with if need be, but one that could be a fringe all star type if he plays like 2 years ago.

[Parallex]

Pass. To many red flags for me... with the remaining position player slots to be filled I'm more interested in having a high floor and Everth Cabrera is too much of a boom-bust type for my liking.