I'd be thrilled if he became as good as either of those two. I was meaning more than that like Lucic or whatever.
I'm just hoping he becomes at least as serviceable as King or Boyle instead of basically McGrattan 2.0
Why would we even think that Smith projects to be a plug? When McGrattan was drafted he had all of 11 goals and 26 points in total from his three seasons in the OHL. Smith had more goals and points this past season than McGrattan did in his entire OHL career up to the time he was drafted. We will see how much Smith benefited from occasional opportunities to play with Dal Colle, but he looks like a hell of a lot more than "basically McGrattan 2.0".
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Why would we even think that Smith projects to be a plug? When McGrattan was drafted he had all of 11 goals and 26 points in total from his three seasons in the OHL. Smith had more goals and points this past season than McGrattan did in his entire OHL career up to the time he was drafted. We will see how much Smith benefited from occasional opportunities to play with Dal Colle, but he looks like a hell of a lot more than "basically McGrattan 2.0".
Conny was on 960 this morning and said he went out to scout Smith. Said he's got the skills and knows how to set up his linemates (Dal Colle) and go to the net. He just needs to work on his balance which is understandable at his size and age. The Flames certainly aren't looking at him as a plug.
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Why would we even think that Smith projects to be a plug? When McGrattan was drafted he had all of 11 goals and 26 points in total from his three seasons in the OHL. Smith had more goals and points this past season than McGrattan did in his entire OHL career up to the time he was drafted. We will see how much Smith benefited from occasional opportunities to play with Dal Colle, but he looks like a hell of a lot more than "basically McGrattan 2.0".
But McGratton at the end of his 18 year old year in the OHL had more points total in his career than Smith (which would be the correct comparable because unlike Smith McGratton was actually drafted in his first year of eligibility).
The 11 goals you cite was over 2 seasons not 3. After 3 seasons and after their 18 year old years their career numbers were.
Smith - 17 goals 25 Assists for 42 career points
McGratton - 22 goals 36 assists for 58 career points.
This season Smith will need to put up close to a PPG to match the output of McGratton in his 19 year old year in the OHL. It will be interesting, but at similar points in their junior careers McGratton had the edge with slightly better hands than Smith.
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But McGratton at the end of his 18 year old year in the OHL had more points total in his career than Smith (which would be the correct comparable because unlike Smith McGratton was actually drafted in his first year of eligibility).
The 11 goals you cite was over 2 seasons not 3. After 3 seasons and after their 18 year old years their career numbers were.
Smith - 17 goals 25 Assists for 42 career points
McGratton - 22 goals 36 assists for 58 career points.
This season Smith will need to put up close to a PPG to match the output of McGratton in his 19 year old year in the OHL. It will be interesting, but at similar points in their junior careers McGratton had the edge with slightly better hands than Smith.
I'm not really seeing the comparisons here. It seems like you're using strange parameters to make it look more similar.
For one, McGrattan never had a 40 pt season in juniors. The closest he got was 35 pts in 60gp as a 19 yr old (.58ppg), which would be Smith's next season. This means he wouldn't need to score "close to a PPG" to match McGrattan's production. McGrattan's 18 yr old season he put up 32pt in 67 gp (.47 ppg) compared to Smith's 40pts in 64 gp (.62ppg). I'd say Smith definitely has the edge in production, and shows a lot better progression than Big Ern did.
On top of all that McGrattan was never expected to be just a goon when he was playing juniors. He was actually the leading scorer on his team at one point, before suffering a knee injury that limited his skating abilities. It was after that point that he started carving a career out as an enforcer.
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But McGratton at the end of his 18 year old year in the OHL had more points total in his career than Smith (which would be the correct comparable because unlike Smith McGratton was actually drafted in his first year of eligibility).
The 11 goals you cite was over 2 seasons not 3. After 3 seasons and after their 18 year old years their career numbers were.
Smith - 17 goals 25 Assists for 42 career points
McGratton - 22 goals 36 assists for 58 career points.
This season Smith will need to put up close to a PPG to match the output of McGratton in his 19 year old year in the OHL. It will be interesting, but at similar points in their junior careers McGratton had the edge with slightly better hands than Smith.
That's all well and good—and thanks for correcting the error in my post—but the point still stands that Smith's 18 yo season was fairly more productive than McGrattan's. McGrattan had a higher number of career Juniour points than Smith by then as a product of his more consistent development from his 16 yo season. I think the fact that Smith improved as much as he did in a single year, added to the fact that he outproduced McGrattan in his 18 yo season is a fair indicator that he is a better player at the same age.
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
That team where McGrattan was nearly at a PPG was historically bad (3-56-7-2). You can look at that many ways, but its kind of like Terry Yake tearing it up on expansion teams back in the day.
EDIT: but its entirely possible that Smith ends up being a McGrattan type player. Lots of big guys end up getting points in junior as they get older because no one wants to go near them (Luke Gazdic and Zach Stortini were a 20 goal guy on year in the OHL). It is different now though with the fighting limit in the OHL and fighting being way down there's less of the fear factor there was back then.
Conny was on 960 this morning and said he went out to scout Smith. Said he's got the skills and knows how to set up his linemates (Dal Colle) and go to the net. He just needs to work on his balance which is understandable at his size and age. The Flames certainly aren't looking at him as a plug.
I'll definitely trust Conroy's judgement over those who haven't seen him and are already fearing he will be a goon.
He also played at a near PPG pace in the playoffs - there definitely is some offensive upside.
He's going to be really effective on the power play. He mixes things up in front of the net and has good hands. If keeps working on his skating he's going to be a nightmare for goalies around the league.
We have to be patient though; power forwards take a long time to break through.
Last edited by FlameZilla; 07-04-2014 at 12:48 PM.
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Why would we even think that Smith projects to be a plug? When McGrattan was drafted he had all of 11 goals and 26 points in total from his three seasons in the OHL. Smith had more goals and points this past season than McGrattan did in his entire OHL career up to the time he was drafted. We will see how much Smith benefited from occasional opportunities to play with Dal Colle, but he looks like a hell of a lot more than "basically McGrattan 2.0".
Usually prime offensive talents that project to be top players have higher point totals in the junior ranks. I know that point totals are not the be all and end all, and I don't put a huge emphasis on them, but his #'s for a 19 year old are disappointing.
Tanner Pearson, the last overager drafted high, had 91 points in his age 19 year and is profiling to be a top 6 forward. Smith had 40. That's not a small difference. With the more limited offensive production, Smith should have a lot less offensive potential comparatively. Add in that most of his highlights are him smashing people, that leads me to believe that he's going to be a depth player.
That doesn't mean that depth guys aren't necessary. King and Boyle were definitely very important parts of the Kings and Rangers runs this year. However, I am very doubtful that his offensive abilities will extend much beyond a 25-35 point per year 3rd/4th line physical guy.
My McGrattan 2.0 statement is more about that being Smith's floor. He can throw them quite effectively, and the fact that he has average speed and is 6-6, he should at worst be a good goon down the road and that's only if his offensive abilities do not translate over.
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Usually prime offensive talents that project to be top players have higher point totals in the junior ranks. I know that point totals are not the be all and end all, and I don't put a huge emphasis on them, but his #'s for a 19 year old are disappointing.
Tanner Pearson, the last overager drafted high, had 91 points in his age 19 year and is profiling to be a top 6 forward. Smith had 40. That's not a small difference. With the more limited offensive production, Smith should have a lot less offensive potential comparatively. Add in that most of his highlights are him smashing people, that leads me to believe that he's going to be a depth player.
That doesn't mean that depth guys aren't necessary. King and Boyle were definitely very important parts of the Kings and Rangers runs this year. However, I am very doubtful that his offensive abilities will extend much beyond a 25-35 point per year 3rd/4th line physical guy.
My McGrattan 2.0 statement is more about that being Smith's floor. He can throw them quite effectively, and the fact that he has average speed and is 6-6, he should at worst be a good goon down the road and that's only if his offensive abilities do not translate over.
