[News Roundup] Burke does his homework. Has a hockey trade in the works?

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by nik-

A four team list in itself is pretty damn considerate in my opionion. Allowing him to then limit it further to one was ridiculous, but I still think that Iginla was the villain in that. Using the term villain lightly of course.

Don't submit a list of teams unless you're willing to go to those teams. Don't allow the team to embarrass itself trying to bend over backwards for you.

There is nothing considerate about it, you make it sound like the Flames had all the options. People seem to always forget about the NTC. Iginla was doing the favor waiving his clause. Its just a lesson for teams about how short sighted and cumbersome a NTC can be.

Unless Iginla waived his NTC right then and there when he handed over his list, he had the final say.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Thats why the alternative is a prospect close to playing, or a young guy who can play now. So its not just rolling the dice on a late 1st rounder in a weak draft or 2nd rounder.

You'll get a guy who another team - the one that has seen him close-up - has determined will not be an elite player. It's a legitimate way to shore up depth, but you're not going to build a core that way. You'll get Colbournes and Butlers, not Benns and Maatas.

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

If there is a young, almost established player, who is closer to being an NHL player than an unknown prospect, then that is the sensible route to go. If he means a 27-30 year-old player, then I would rather have picks. But if it is between a player like Joe Colborne, for example, vs. a 2nd round pick, I would take the player like Joe Colborne.

Joe colborne will never be part of a high end core. He may turn into a nice secondary piece which is also valuable but also far easier to acquire than a high end player.

The only way we can really compete for the cup is to have an elite core, and the only reliable way of getting that is through the draft. High picks are nice but we also need a lot of them in order to hit pay dirt in the draft. Given where the flames are right now I would take the draft pick (hopefully picks).

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Leondros

There is nothing considerate about it, you make it sound like the Flames had all the options. People seem to always forget about the NTC. Iginla was doing the favor waiving his clause. Its just a lesson for teams about how short sighted and cumbersome a NTC can be.

Unless Iginla waived his NTC right then and there when he handed over his list, he had the final say.

When Iggy submitted his list, Feaster was suppose to get him to sign off on the list and submit it to league. Basically making his NMC become a NTC to 4 teams. If the list is submitted then they could have just traded him to Boston without asking him. While i hated Feaster, i am not sure you can blame him for this? I think Edwards was the lead guy on the Iggy trade.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You'll get a guy who another team - the one that has seen him close-up - has determined will not be an elite player. It's a legitimate way to shore up depth, but you're not going to build a core that way. You'll get Colbournes and Butlers, not Benns and Maatas.

I wouldn't expect to get a Benn or Maata. That would be rediculous considering Benn just played in the olympics, and Maata is already playing regular minutes.

Its just a preference, Cliff - don't take Burke's words as "I will ONLY" do this. I don't know why you are so hung up on this. He wants a young player who is playing now, cause its less risky. If he doesn't get it, ok fine..... is there a near NHL ready prospect? History has shown that we have seen those deals. But if its not in the cards...... ok a pick.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by nik-

A four team list in itself is pretty damn considerate in my opionion. Allowing him to then limit it further to one was ridiculous, but I still think that Iginla was the villain in that. Using the term villain lightly of course.

Don't submit a list of teams unless you're willing to go to those teams. Don't allow the team to embarrass itself trying to bend over backwards for you.

nik I'm not trying to debate, and going to take the opportunity to get back on topic and suggest this is likely why I feel more comfortable for some reason that Burke is in charge this year of the trade deadline than I was of Feaster last year.

I'm not trying to bash Feaster at all or make excuses it was the way the whole dead line was handled. It's just my feeling. Maybe call it; I think Burke is a better negotiating lawyer/GM than I think Feaster is and no one likes lawyers even if they are nice guys no one likes them.

[nik-]

Well I don't think we can disagree on that. I think most people are much more comfortable with Burke at the trade wheel than Feaster.

[RM14]

An Iggy then got burned by loosing to the team he turned down. Karma.

[cKy]

How did this thread become about Iginla? It happened before Burke was even here. Some of you people sure like to dwell on the past.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This next part isn't pointed at Cliff but it is funny that the Burke haters have quickly become Feaster apologists. Burke knows we are in for a couple hard years but you look at what Edmonton has done by trading all their vets for picks and wing forced to put their lotto picks in leadership roles at 18-19. Those players should not have to carry the load. In addition Calgary has some nice prospects in the 18-21 age range that are knocking on the door. Outside of Bouma, Backlund, Brodie, Colborne they lack 22-25 year olds on the roster. If Burke can add a nice young player and a 2nd round pick this deadline we will be in fine shape in terms of the rebuild. Still poised to pick high on 2015 where we can potentially land the next superstar this franchise needs

I personally like how the Burke apologists have lowered the bar so significantly for Brian so that he may possibly be able to exceed their expectations. Saying that Cammalleri or Wideman have no trade value and Bouwmeester was the next Bobby Orr. Any rationale person who thinks that Feaster was awful would have to concede that even if Burke has a slightly poorer hand to play, if Feaster got such a terrible return for Iginla and Bouwmeester that at a minimum the great Brian Burke could get similar returns for his assets at this deadline.

I do not think that Feaster was a good GM, I think he was pretty awful. His O'Reilly experiment was way worse than any trade he made in my opinion, but his return on trades was not great. I just think that Brian Burke is an equally awful GM who talks a great game. He is the Jerry Jones of NHL GM's

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Some people can't rationalize that Iginla did a dick thing there. First submitting a list of teams that were okay, and then changing his mind last second to only Pittsburgh, especially when the reported return from Boston was vastly greater and would've left the Flames in a better spot after he left. He kind of screwed us over a bit with that whole thing, and probably cost Feaster his job on top of it.

No. Feaster cost Feaster his job. Although Iginla did do a dick thing. Does anybody think that Feaster will get another hockey job, or as a gm? Doubtful

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

No. Feaster cost Feaster his job. Although Iginla did do a dick thing. Does anybody think that Feaster will get another hockey job, or as a gm? Doubtful

Uh, how? He chose Pittsburgh. Its not his fault a rumoured trade was leaked.

[Poe969]

Either way, this isn't a thread about Iggy.... enough threads turn into them. Let this one be about Burke's potential moves and what people might think it could be.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Burke has implied a few times that he would like to speed up the rebuild, and I can see him using some of our A-list prospects (minus Monahan) to acquire an over-rated/expensive big name player.

Ummm he's also said he's not making any deals for the short term, everything is with a view to the long term. So we shouldn't be worried.

[codynw]

Based on what Burke said (or actually, didn't say) during last nights intermission, the "hockey trade" could be something involving Glencross. Still don't think he'd waive his NTC though.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You'll get a guy who another team - the one that has seen him close-up - has determined will not be an elite player. It's a legitimate way to shore up depth, but you're not going to build a core that way. You'll get Colbournes and Butlers, not Benns and Maatas.

Or maybe a Martin St Louis? Or a Chara? (plenty more examples)

[flamesfan1297]

I hope that Glencross is traded. I think that now is the best time to trade him, when we could get something back for him. When this team is a contender Glencross wont be in his prime or be key part of this team. He is also very injury prone. Like somone said already it is unlikely that he will waive his no trade clause.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I wouldn't be so sure.

The Flames' acting general manager was asked what type of players he would pursue in a trade situation.

"We would like to get a player who will help us right away, and if that is not possible then our next choice is a player who is close to playing that we think could make us better next year. And if not, we would look at draft choices," said Burke.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444853

I have real doubts about the willingess of Flames management to patiently rebuild the roster through the draft. They're already looking for shortcuts and reclamation projects instead of demonstrating confidence in their own scouting and drafting ability.

The Sabres are doing it right:

2012: 2x 1st rounders, 1x 2nd
2013: 2x 1st rounders, 3x 2nd
2014: 3x 1st rounders, 4x 2nd *

* Assuming they get a 1st for Moulson, NYI's 1st this year, and at least a 2nd for Miller or Ott. If the NYIs defer, then 2x 1st rounders in 2015.

That's what a rebuild looks like. The Flames got off to a good start last season. If they don't walk into 2014 draft with more 1st or 2nd rounders, I'd hesitate to even call it a rebuild. Drafting the regular allotment of players each draft isn't any kind of a strategy to dramatically improve over your rivals in the conference, all of whom already have stronger rosters and have the same allotment of picks you do.

They got lucky there with Regehr to get 2nds in both 2013 and 2014. They also got a 2nd in 2011(?) I guess. Essentially turned Chris Butler in 3 2nd round picks....

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

Let's judge Mr. Burke on what he comes up with this deadline, shall we. I don't have much confidence he'll do much of anything or improve on what Feaster did last deadline. To top Feaster he'll have to recoup two first round picks and four prospects on two trades. Burke has talked a whole lot of #### to this point, but he's delivered nothing to date. All the bluster of getting bigger and more truculent has turned into a major bust. All the bluster of moving players out before the Olympic break turned into a major bust. I'm skeptical and have gotten tired of his comments. If he were doing this for another team we would be calling him Tubby McBlowhard and reveling in his failures. I prefer he was more Darryl Sutter and waited to flap his gums after moves have been made because he's set expectations he has failed to meet.

The one talking #### is you

1. We don't have as valuable assets to deal this year. So saying Burke has to top Feaster is unrealistic
2. You again show you expectations are completely out of whack when you say Burke has been a bust in regards to getting bigger and more truculent. If you follow the NHL at all you know that major deals are few and far between mid-season. Team shaping moves usually happen in the offseason. I'm assuming you know this and are ignoring this because it doesn't help your anti-Burke rant.

I mean either you don't know how the NHL works in regards to trades under the salary cap or your expectations are completely unrealistic. The Burke insults just show your argument boils down to "bluster", exactly what you accuse Burke of.

[cowtown75]

I do believe today is the day Ryan O'Reilly is officially available.