[News] Flames scratch Sven...again

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Company XYZ gets a new VP.

New VP moves into his new office and one of the first words out of his mouth is that he doesn’t like one of the employees.

New VP then goes on to publically call out one of the 1st year employees saying he’s lazy, doesn’t work hard enough, and doesn’t do all the jobs that he’s expected to do.
Everybody in the company puts two and two together and has a pretty good idea who the employee is that the new VP doesn’t like.

Said 1st year, 21 year old, employee is told, by his immediate boss, not to bother coming into work today… not once but twice. He’s told it’s for his own good and to think of it as a learning experience.

Said 1st year employee is confused and disheartened. He thinks, and many of his fellow employees think, that he’s been doing a pretty good job and they don’t understand why he’s being picked on especially when the job he’s been doing is much better than the job his replacement can ever hope to do.


Then there’s this 6 year (30 year old) employee who gets to work with on the top line, gets all the prime accounts, gets called on frequently for special assignments…. But frequently produces quality of work like he doesn’t really care and has lately been making a few bone headed mistakes that has cost the company money.

Nothing happens to this guy…. He gets a pass on everything… as a matter of fact his immediate boss goes out of his way to praise the guy.


Do you really think that treatment like this is going to help the 21 year old 1st year employee? Or is it more likely to destroy what little confidence he has and possibly ruin a promising career?

Except for this is pro sports we're talking about, not the Engineering department at Suncor.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Company XYZ gets a new VP.

New VP moves into his new office and one of the first words out of his mouth is that he doesn’t like one of the employees.

New VP then goes on to publically call out one of the 1st year employees saying he’s lazy, doesn’t work hard enough, and doesn’t do all the jobs that he’s expected to do.
Everybody in the company puts two and two together and has a pretty good idea who the employee is that the new VP doesn’t like.

Said 1st year, 21 year old, employee is told, by his immediate boss, not to bother coming into work today… not once but twice. He’s told it’s for his own good and to think of it as a learning experience.

Said 1st year employee is confused and disheartened. He thinks, and many of his fellow employees think, that he’s been doing a pretty good job and they don’t understand why he’s being picked on especially when the job he’s been doing is much better than the job his replacement can ever hope to do.


Then there’s this 6 year (30 year old) employee who gets to work with on the top line, gets all the prime accounts, gets called on frequently for special assignments…. But frequently produces quality of work like he doesn’t really care and has lately been making a few bone headed mistakes that has cost the company money.

Nothing happens to this guy…. He gets a pass on everything… as a matter of fact his immediate boss goes out of his way to praise the guy.


Do you really think that treatment like this is going to help the 21 year old 1st year employee? Or is it more likely to destroy what little confidence he has and possibly ruin a promising career?

Wow - my IQ dropped a couple points having read that. Welcome, new member of Team Ignore!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by nik-

What?

If you play more then 25 NHL games you don't have to attend development camp.

Sven had played 25 NHL games at the end of last season and didn't think he had to attend. He wasn't overly happy that he had to attend and he kind of pouted a little.

It was alluded to earlier in the season in one of the articles about Sven and his struggles to start the season. Think Peter Loubardias made reference to it on the radio at one point as well.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If you play more then 25 NHL games you don't have to attend development camp.

Sven had played 25 NHL games at the end of last season and didn't think he had to attend. He wasn't overly happy that he had to attend and he kind of pouted a little.

It was alluded to earlier in the season in one of the articles about Sven and his struggles to start the season. Think Peter Loubardias made reference to it on the radio at one point as well.

Where was this pouting? I don't recall that at all.

[indes]

He was pouting at orange Julius obviously

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by nik-

Where was this pouting? I don't recall that at all.

Did you watch development camp or any of the rookie games?

At the time the regular question on CP was "What's wrong with Sven?". He clearly wasn't trying his hardest.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by nik-

Where was this pouting? I don't recall that at all.

The pouting was just noted on the ice, from his lackluster performance against prospects, when he should have been heads and shoulders above them. Not actual pouting to the media or anything. It just looked to some that he was just going through the motions in development camp.

[nik-]

There's a long way from a lackluster camp to pouting.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by nik-

There's a long way from a lackluster camp to pouting.

Exactly, it's just extrapolation from viewing from afar. No one on here knows what was/is going on in Sven's head, only those in the locker room would have a real idea. It's all just speculating from fans.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Except for this is pro sports we're talking about, not the Engineering department at Suncor.

In pro sports, confidence is EVERYTHING. So its even more applicable.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by nik-

There's a long way from a lackluster camp to pouting.

Trust me I not just making it up, It's been talked about in the media a little as well.

He felt that he should not have had to go to the summer development camp and wasn't happy that he had to go.

He not have felt he belonged at the summer development camp and then the pre-training camp prospects gathering in Penticton, but the team wanted him there for a reason. And they do pay his wages.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...331/story.html

[Ashasx]

You guys are drawing nonsense conclusions based on limited knowledge.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Rerun

In pro sports, confidence is EVERYTHING. So its even more applicable.

Yes it is, but as a pro athlete you learn to take the shots and improve or get the f*** out of the league. Even in junior high or high school, you learn that you are up against 60 other guys to make the team and if you aren't good enough you're just told "sorry kid, maybe next year". That never happens in the real world.

Frankly, if Sven isn't good enough for the NHL, then he's not good enough for the NHL. He won't be the first 13th over-all pick to bust and certainly won't be the last.

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Company XYZ gets a new VP.

New VP moves into his new office and one of the first words out of his mouth is that he doesn’t like one of the employees.

New VP then goes on to publically call out one of the 1st year employees saying he’s lazy, doesn’t work hard enough, and doesn’t do all the jobs that he’s expected to do.
Everybody in the company puts two and two together and has a pretty good idea who the employee is that the new VP doesn’t like.

Said 1st year, 21 year old, employee is told, by his immediate boss, not to bother coming into work today… not once but twice. He’s told it’s for his own good and to think of it as a learning experience.

Said 1st year employee is confused and disheartened. He thinks, and many of his fellow employees think, that he’s been doing a pretty good job and they don’t understand why he’s being picked on especially when the job he’s been doing is much better than the job his replacement can ever hope to do.


Then there’s this 6 year (30 year old) employee who gets to work with on the top line, gets all the prime accounts, gets called on frequently for special assignments…. But frequently produces quality of work like he doesn’t really care and has lately been making a few bone headed mistakes that has cost the company money.

Nothing happens to this guy…. He gets a pass on everything… as a matter of fact his immediate boss goes out of his way to praise the guy.


Do you really think that treatment like this is going to help the 21 year old 1st year employee? Or is it more likely to destroy what little confidence he has and possibly ruin a promising career?

To say that you are over thinking and over analyzing this would be an understatement IMO.

If a player is that fragile they should move into accounting..no offense accountants, it's just really quiet down there.

[SuperMatt18]

I know that we can't say anything wrong about our prospects but I'm not making stuff up.

Baertschi was not happy that he had to attend prospect camp. Multiple media sources mentioned it, Peter Loubardias said it on the radio, and I have heard about it from others close to Sven as well.

And by all accounts Baertschi has fallen on Hartley’s wrong side. About to turn 21, the Flames invited him to his third summer development camp this season and sources say he wasn’t happy about it. So he was then assigned to his third Penticton rookie tournament, a not so subtle message that he is still a rookie and doesn’t get veteran treatment until he earns it.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/s...han-baertschi/

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Except for this is pro sports we're talking about, not the Engineering department at Suncor.

That isn't really much of a rebuttal to his point. People are human and when they are in this sort of situation, Rerun actually described how someone would feel pretty accurately.

Why exactly would someone on a pro-sports team feel any differently when favorites are being treated differently than others?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Frankly, if Sven isn't good enough for the NHL, then he's not good enough for the NHL. He won't be the first 12th over-all pick to bust and certainly won't be the last.

Ridiculous. He's a young player. Players get better over time. If he's not a great NHLer right now, that doesn't mean he can't be one in a few years down the road.

You have to think long-term for this team. Is it best for his development to sit every third game and watch as the team gets destroyed from the pressbox? There's nothing he can learn from watching anymore. He's had his fair share of injuries over the last 2 years... he knows what hockey is. He's not going to suddenly have an epiphany watching from 100 feet above.

Hockey is 90% mental. Confidence is mostly everything. I'm not asking for the team to roll out the red carpet for him, but these moves (mistakes) are shortsighted and can (will) hurt the team in the long run.

Unfair treatment is not fair treatment just because he's a young player.

[FakenHaken]

^^^^Not to say he's bust anyways. Frankly, the only way I'd be disappointed in Sven's treatment is if it was the Brian Sutter as the head coach and his way of doing things. First there would be a comment about something about shoveling cow dung all day long in 100F weather, and how his brother punched him in the face really hard. Now Sven go sit in the press box and think about that.

They didn't Hartley and the coaching staff are actually teaching in this case, because they care and want more.

[Hack&Lube]

IIRC, there was one poster who claimed 2nd or 3rd degree knowledge from contacts that Sven was indeed unhappy or 'pouting'.

Different players require different treatment to get into that game space in their heads.

I'm not a fan of this scratching but it was more about Hartley's choice like substituting jackman that really boggles (bottles if you are Bertuzzied) the mind.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

That isn't really much of a rebuttal to his point. People are human and when they are in this sort of situation, Rerun actually described how someone would feel pretty accurately.

Why exactly would someone on a pro-sports team feel any differently when favorites are being treated differently than others?

Because that's the nature of sports, even at a young age. We're not talking about the real world. In the real world, you're sent for training seminars, you're given a role that "fits" for your personality or you're transferred into another department that allows you to grow. In sports, any sports, the goal is to win. If you're not good enough for the team, then you don't make the team. Simple as that.

This notion that Sven has his feelings hurt and should be coddled because of it is a bit rediculous.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Ridiculous. He's a young player. Players get better over time. If he's not a great NHLer right now, that doesn't mean he can't be one in a few years down the road.

You have to think long-term for this team. Is it best for his development to sit every third game and watch as the team gets destroyed from the pressbox? There's nothing he can learn from watching anymore. He's had his fair share of injuries over the last 2 years... he knows what hockey is. He's not going to suddenly have an epiphany watching from 100 feet above.

Hockey is 90% mental. Confidence is mostly everything. I'm not asking for the team to roll out the red carpet for him, but these moves (mistakes) are shortsighted and can (will) hurt the team in the long run.

I think I trust Hartley a bit more than a few random dudes on a message board to know what's best for Baertschi or the team in general. Let's not forget the youngsters (Tanguay in Colorado, Heatley in Atlanta, even Brodie/Monahan in Calgary) that Hartley has turned into pretty decent players.