[OOT] October 17th - 12 Games

[OffsideSpecialist]

I'm shocked that this haemorrhoid hasn't gotten bored of spitting diarrhoea on every thread in the FOI forum yet.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Bergeron is better than Kessel wow. Bergeron isn't even a top line player. Defense gets very overrated these days.

Bergeron is not the best centre on his own team.

And yet: still better than Phil Kessel.

Funny how that works.
As for Lupul, as usual, you take stats that only support your opinion, not ones that paint a bigger picture.

Lupul over the past 3 seasons:
136 GP, 116 points - .85 PPG
If you include the last 8 games? .87 PPG

He isn't a PPG guy. He has never put up a 100 game stretch where he was a PPG guy, let alone a couple seasons of it.

[DatSOOKin]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Bergeron is not the best centre on his own team.

Using this logic, Stajan must be way better then Malkin.

[Delthefunky]

I did not know Mike Grier still played. Good for him. Amazing 2 goals by Gerbe tonight.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by strombad

And yet: still better than Phil Kessel.

Funny how that works.
As for Lupul, as usual, you take stats that only support your opinion, not ones that paint a bigger picture.

Lupul over the past 3 seasons:
136 GP, 116 points - .85 PPG
If you include the last 8 games? .87 PPG

He isn't a PPG guy. He has never put up a 100 game stretch where he was a PPG guy, let alone a couple seasons of it.

Again. Including this season, he's now PPG for the past 3 years. I've already shown you the stats.

Lupul=PPG. player. He's been PPG. for 90 games. Soon to be the 100 you demand.

Since coming to the Leafs he's a different player. 112 points in 118 games.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Francis's Hairpiece

Phil Kessel got a pity car because nobody wanted to pick him for their All-Star team.

Exhibition game.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

What exactly do you think the Olympic team based on if not Olympic play?

And have addressed Lupul's play in the NHL multiple times in this thread. I have said he needs to do it in a larger sample size over an 82 game season to start to be included amongst the very best forwards. Also as mentioned before his NHL defensive play could easily use some work as well to be considered higher than he currently is.

I haven't heard a single guy in the TO media say "what a star Bobby Ryan is." I have heard them say that he would help the Senators this year and an improvement over what they had last year which doesn't seem crazy.

ESPN had the Sens in the top 10 pre-season and picked them to win the Atlantic does that mean they are part of the Toronto lead love affair with the Sens? Or maybe thinking the Sens will do well this year is what most hockey experts think and has nothing to do with some BS Toronto media agenda against the Leafs. Even if they do think the Sens will contend that isn't close to "kissing their ass."

And Patrice Bergeron is a better player than Phil Kessel everyday of the week. Team Canada has been glad that he plays for them (although I know getting the best hockey players together means nothing at the NHL level and is based solely on pixie dust and lollipops) and I am sure the Bruins were just fine with overrating his defensive play for their two recent trips to the SCF.

The Hockey News just ranked Bergeron as the 9th best player in the world. Despite people ripping me in this thread, I guarantee none of you, not a single one, would rank Bergeron as a top 10 player if you made your lists right now.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by DatSOOKin

Using this logic, Stajan must be way better then Malkin.

Crosby is the best player in the world. Bergeron is a second line centre because David Krecji is the first line centre. Big difference.

Your logic is the one that is nutty.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

The Hockey News just ranked Bergeron as the 9th best player in the world. Despite people ripping me in this thread, I guarantee none of you, not a single one, would rank Bergeron as a top 10 player if you made your lists right now.

I am not sure what this has to do with anything.

I would probably have him top 20 but doubtful for top 10.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Crosby is the best player in the world. Bergeron is a second line centre because David Krecji is the first line centre. Big difference.

Your logic is the one that is nutty.

The logic is just fine it is showing that it is silly to base someone's value on a perceived 1st or 2nd line role on their team.

We can actually watch them play the game and rate them on that rather than say this guy is better because player x supposedly is the 2nd line guy and player y is supposedly a 1st line guy on their team.

This of course ignores the fact that 1st/2nd/3rd line labels are stupid and useless in todays game as the teams are not constructed that simply for the most part.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

The logic is just fine it is showing that it is silly to base someone's value on a perceived 1st or 2nd line role on their team.

We can actually watch them play the game and rate them on that rather than say this guy is better because player x supposedly is the 2nd line guy and player y is supposedly a 1st line guy on their team.

This of course ignores the fact that 1st/2nd/3rd line labels are stupid and useless in todays game as the teams are not constructed that simply for the most part.

No. Pittsburgh is a very rare case. You can't compare the reasons Malkin is a #2 centre to anyone else in the entire NHL. Bergeron is a second line centre because David Krecji is better than him.

[devo22]

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

No. Pittsburgh is a very rare case. You can't compare the reasons Malkin is a #2 centre to anyone else in the entire NHL. Bergeron is a second line centre because David Krecji is better than him.

The notion of 1st line/2nd line centers is stupid.

At the end of games up one or down one Bergeron is on the ice for the Bruins that shows me a lot more about his value to the team and who they think is better than your arbitrary 1st line/2nd line label.

Last year Bergeron averaged more TOI per game, the year before he averaged more TOI per game, the year before he also averaged more TOI. This year early on Krecji has finally played more minutes per game than Bergeron, so outside of your labels what exactly makes Krecji the number 1 center on the team if Bergeron is consistently playing more minutes than he is?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by moon

The notion of 1st line/2nd line centers is stupid.

At the end of games up one or down one Bergeron is on the ice for the Bruins that shows me a lot more about his value to the team and who they think is better than your arbitrary 1st line/2nd line label.

Last year Bergeron averaged more TOI per game, the year before he averaged more TOI per game, the year before he also averaged more TOI. This year early on Krecji has finally played more minutes per game than Bergeron, so outside of your labels what exactly makes Krecji the number 1 center on the team if Bergeron is consistently playing more minutes than he is?

Krecji is the top minutes player on the Bruins this year.

Once the playoffs start, Bergeron takes a back seat in TOI and production. Krecji is one of the biggest cluth players in the NHl.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Once the playoffs start, Bergeron takes a back seat in TOI and production. Krecji is one of the biggest cluth players in the NHl.

Was the series against the Leafs so traumatic, that you've just completely blocked what happened out of your mind? Bergeron's play was the definition of clutch.

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Krecji is the top minutes player on the Bruins this year.

Once the playoffs start, Bergeron takes a back seat in TOI and production. Krecji is one of the biggest cluth players in the NHl.

I acknowledged that in the first 10 games of this season Krecji finally has started to play more minutes. We'll see if it lasts but I guess we have seen how much stock you put into to small sample sizes so not surprising that you ignore what has happened the last 3 seasons in terms of TOI.

I thought we were talking #1 center's here since when did a vague label like "biggest clutch players in the NHL" start determining who is the #1 center? And I am pretty sure Bruins were just fine with how "clutch" Bergeron was in game 7 against the Leafs in the play-offs.

[BigTuna]

2013 playoffs:
David Krejci C 22 9 17 26 +13 TOI: 22:15

Patrice Bergeron C 22 9 6 15 +2 TOI: 20:43

[moon]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

2013 playoffs:
David Krejci C 22 9 17 26 +13 TOI: 22:15

Patrice Bergeron C 22 9 6 15 +2 TOI: 20:43

Awesome.

If we were talking about who scored more in the 2013 play-offs that post would have a lot of relevance. We aren't though so like most of your posts here it is used to deflect from the actual topic.

[BigTuna]

More TOI, much more points, better +/-.

Career playoffs:

Krejci:
81 29 44 73 31

Bergeron:
83 20 37 57 29

[Table 5]

If he keeps that up, he might turn into the next Mike Peca.