Yzerman, Shero and Rutherford want to explore eliminating fighting

[SuperMatt18]

The biggest argument against fighting would be playoff hockey.

Fights rarely happen in the playoffs and when they do it isn't a staged fight. It is a spur of the moment fight. Is playoff hockey worse off because of the lack of fights? or is it quicker and more intense because you don't have 4th line goons that slow the game down.

There were only 15 fights in the playoffs last year, and 7 of those came in a game of the Ottawa-Montreal series after Lars Eller got KOd.

I think that a game misconduct would move to the same type of fighting that we see in the playoffs, becoming the type of fighting we see in the regular season. Fights that actually have a meaning.

Playoff fights are not staged fights, they are fights that truly belong in the game. I think that a game misconduct would prevent the goons from having staged fights but that the spur of the moment fights would still happen.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

At least you are presenting the only truly honest argument for removing fighting: You simply don't like it.

So the only "truly honest" argument is that you don't like fighting as opposed to any other arguments. Truly terrible.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

So the only "truly honest" argument is that you don't like fighting as opposed to any other arguments. Truly terrible.

It's a REALLY easy strawman to burn down though.

I like Fighting and I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

This has been a good thread.

[jeffman]

Not surprised Shero is pushing this.It would help the Pens out alot

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by WilderPegasus

It's like in baseball. Fights do occasionally break out. But you don't see two guys dropping their glove in between innings to start throwing punches at each other to prevent pitchers from throwing at batters.

Agree.
And in football and baseball, you don't see two guys duking it out in hopes of lifting their team's intensity and shifting game momentum. Pro athletes shouldn't need a fight to get motivation, and like Duha, I'd like to see the staged fights gone.

[Dogbert]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I don't see why body checking will ever need to be eliminated from the game. There are probably a hundred times more hits in hockey than fights, but I doubt that the ratio of injuries related to fights to injuries related to hits is anywhere even close to that far apart.

Plus, the NHL is actively trying to reduce the worst types of hits in terms of causing injuries - hits from behind, hits to the head, etc.

Injuries are always going to be part of the game, but injuries to the head/brain will have to be significantly reduced. Fighting nearly solely targets the head, whereas body checking for the most part does not target the head. The rules on body checking can be changed to reduce head injuries, and have been. The rules for fighting cannot be similarly changed to reduce head injuries, and that's why fighting will have to be removed.

The league cannot be serious about trying to eliminate head injuries while fighting is still part of the game.

The problem here is that nearly every body check results in some kind of brain damage, regardless of whether the head is contacted. If the force of the hit is enough for the player's brain to make contact with his skull - which can happen on contact to the shoulders and chest as well as the head - then the brain suffers some sort of damage; even though it may be minor enough not to cause physical or mental symptoms on its own, the buildup of many of these incidents over the course of an athlete's career has been linked to CTE and other neurological disorders just the same as repeated diagnosed concussions have.

Either way, this isn't a decision that will be made by hockey fans, or players, or even owners. Medical professionals understand the toll that fighting and hitting take on the players' brains, and you can bet that there's an army of lawyers eying the situation keenly as well. The class-action lawsuits that have been launched against the NFL in the past are coming to the NHL, and when they do, you're going to see some rapid, substantive, and game-altering changes made in a great big hurry.

[OzSome]

problem with eliminating fighting is you will pinheads like Burrows, Lapierre, Orr and other menace having freedom of making cheapshots because they know they can get away with it. Do we want to see these morons cheapshot skilled players? We might end up seeing more injuries.

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Not surprised Shero is pushing this.It would help the Pens out alot

Why? He's got the stars that would be the most targeted in a league with no fighting to keep things safe.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by OzSome

problem with eliminating fighting is you will pinheads like Burrows, Lapierre, Orr and other menace having freedom of making cheapshots because they know they can get away with it. Do we want to see these morons cheapshot skilled players? We might end up seeing more injuries.

That's ridiculous. They do it already and don't care. I can't buy that argument

[Fire]

Fighting is part of the entertainment of the game. Eliminating fighting would hurt the league the most in the United States, not substantially but they will feel it.

North Americans, on average, prefer the more physical sports. The NFL in the States and hockey in Canada.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

When was the last time a dirty hit was actually answered with a fight?

Serious question, it is something that always gets brought up to defend fighting but I can't remember a time when a fight actually solved the issue or prevented a dirty hit.

I can't recall an actual fight, but the closest thing I can remember off the top of my head is Duncan Keith going after one of the Sedins for a dirty shoulder. Even Keith didn't have to pay for that with a fight.

That sad part for me, is I can't remember a dirty hit being punished with a fight, but I've seen many, many clean hits answered by fights. I've hated that since the first one I saw. I've also read multiple people say that's part of hockey, and if you want to hurt someone on the other team , even with a perfectly clean hockey check, you should have to fight the other guy's teammate. It's ridiculous.

I would hope that fighting finds its way out of hockey. It would also allow more skilled and more entertaining players to take those roster spots, elevating the game as a whole.

[JeanLucPicard]

Originally Posted by Fire

Fighting is part of the entertainment of the game. Eliminating fighting would hurt the league the most in the United States, not substantially but they will feel it.

North Americans, on average, prefer the more physical sports. The NFL in the States and hockey in Canada.

I do not think eliminating fighting would hurt the US market at all. Major physical sports in US, for example NFL, do not involve fighting. I don't think I remember the last time I saw two NFLers go at it against each other while the ref watches and the crowd cheers on - in fact, I think in every physical sport other than Hockey, it is frowned upon.

I hope it eventually disappears because it just doesn't make sense, first of all.
Secondly, it allows younger kids to think it is ok to fight in junior leagues - which is just sad.

I've a problem when people say: "it'll allow players like Cook etc etc to make dirty hits and get away with it". The way to stop players from making dirty plays is not to have them pay for it through another dirty aspect of the game. The way is to have harsher penalties.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

In short, the rules did not change until players changed their minds?

Thank you for successfully arguing that what players want most certainly is a barometer. And a very important one at that.

My point was, what the players want shouldn't be a barometer for what is best. Or we wouldn't have visors or helmets.

Wouldn't it have been better to make visors mandatory before players started losing eyes?

The players have proven that they care more for comfort than for safety. Therefore we shouldn't be looking to them for what to do.

Like with any other rule change, they'll adapt.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Fire

Fighting is part of the entertainment of the game. Eliminating fighting would hurt the league the most in the United States, not substantially but they will feel it.

North Americans, on average, prefer the more physical sports. The NFL in the States and hockey in Canada.

This isn't true. You here this same argument about attempts to clean up every sport. Football and Nascar are two sports that get more popular even as they try to make it less dangerous for the players.

[Phil Russell]

At some point in time, maybe tomorrow, maybe in five years, maybe in ten, an NHL player is going to be critically injured in a fight. It will happen. At that point, fighting will be banned. The NHL needs to decide if it is best to ban fighting before this happens, on its own terms, or on the back of this tragic and damning event. The choice seems obvious.

[Clarkey]

This thread and the general consensus to remove fighting from hockey are just downright bizarre to me. Does this board really consist of that many new age pussbags or are people just afraid to admit they like fighting? Does this board represent the average hockey fan's opinion, has the public opinion about hockey fights really shifted that rapidly?

I love fighting and the roughness of hockey. I even like staged fights. It's entertainment folks. Millions of people risk their health and safety far worse in other industries every day and 'insurance rates' aren't stopping anything. Firemen, road construction workers, roughneck's, police, heavy equipment operators etc. face much higher risk of life threatening/physically debilitating injuries or illness than do hockey players and these are average joe's making average cash, not millions.

Maybe I ended up on a Canuck's board by mistake.

Jarome fighting that ginger kid from Dallas last year was in my top 5 Flames highlights of the entire season.

[Clarkey]

PM me for a universally acclaimed Harvard peer reviewed scientific journal that provides irrefutable proof to my claim about the blue collar injuries and death rates far exceeding those in professional hockey.

[Hockey_Ninja]

We should just have it that fights can be only done Semin-style. Nobody's brains would get scrambled up that way.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Millions of people risk their health and safety far worse in other industries every day and 'insurance rates' aren't stopping anything. Firemen, road construction workers, roughneck's, police, heavy equipment operators etc. face much higher risk of life threatening/physically debilitating injuries or illness than do hockey players and these are average joe's making average cash, not millions.

Exactly. Do you seriously not understand why insuring guys earning millions a year is a bigger issue than insuring a dime a dozen laborer?

Never mind the fact that all of those jobs go to great lengths to limit hazards. Do you think a heavy equipment operator could be insured if part of his job involved getting repeatedly smashed in the head?

[WilderPegasus]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

This thread and the general consensus to remove fighting from hockey are just downright bizarre to me. Does this board really consist of that many new age pussbags or are people just afraid to admit they like fighting? Does this board represent the average hockey fan's opinion, has the public opinion about hockey fights really shifted that rapidly?

Maybe some people don't like seeing others suffer brain damage for entertainment purposes.

I love fighting and the roughness of hockey. I even like staged fights. It's entertainment folks. Millions of people risk their health and safety far worse in other industries every day and 'insurance rates' aren't stopping anything. Firemen, road construction workers, roughneck's, police, heavy equipment operators etc. face much higher risk of life threatening/physically debilitating injuries or illness than do hockey players and these are average joe's making average cash, not millions.

False equivalence. If we could find how to make those professions safer we would encourage them to do it. Just like we do for hockey players. Making hockey players safer doesn't mean we make them less safe.

Maybe I ended up on a Canuck's board by mistake.

Which Canuck?