[Rumour] Feaster only offering T.J. Brodie a one or two year deal.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

Problem with Brodie is the comparable players were given term.
Voynov (slightly higher level) = 6 years
Josi (very close, maybe slightly higher) = 7 years.

If you work off a 2 year deal, those two would have 2.7+3 (2.85) and 2.5+3 (2.75) respectively. I would think Brodie comes in just below those two if he takes a 2 year deal, but with two guys in his age group, with similar experience, get 6 and 7 year deals, it gives the agent ammunition to fight for term.
Guys who got shorter term deals like Weircoch, Martinez, Muzzin, are all in a tier below/less proven.
Nick Leddy signed a 2 year deal (2, 3.4) but he has a bit more NHL experience, and as a former 1st round pick, can command more $$$. Shattenkirk is not a good comparable either, as he has played in the NHL for longer and has the benefit of more than 1 good point scoring season.

I would say a 2 year deal in the 2.3-2.7 AAV range, or if he is determined for term, lowball him, as he is not at the level of Josi or Voynov yet. Voynov has an AAV of 4.167, Josi 4, Brodie should get 3.8 at the most, and I would bring the offer closer to 3.3-3.5 (i.e. 2.2+2.7+3.4+4+4.2+4.5 = 3.5 AAV).

Best bet, as many posters have said, is sell Brodie and his agent on a bigger deal in 2 years time when the cap has gone up and Brodie's status on the team and in the NHL has gone up also. Make around 2.4M now, then get a deal north of 5M later, provided he has earned it

Voynov has a ring and Josi has 48 games of stepping up in a world without Ryan Suter.

Brodie has 13 games as a #1. He famously played 26 minutes in a 9-0 loss and was somehow even. To me, his proper contract comparable is PK Subban; short term. 2 years. Win a Norris, we'll take care of you.

I think Brodie is a gem. Giving young D pay for potential type deals is a bad idea. He's 23, he doesn't need to make all his money on this deal.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Giving young D pay for potential type deals is a bad idea.

But it worked so well with Phaneuf. . . .

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by BurningSteel

this wait is getting uncomfortable

Why? What's the worst thing that could happen? He pulls a Kyle Turris and demands to be traded? If that happens then I would hope Feaster personally drives him to the airport as there's no need to try and keep players that don't want to be here. That's worse case and I imagine that there is just some posturing going on and he will be suiting up at camp with everyone else.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

Problem with Brodie is the comparable players were given term.
Voynov (slightly higher level) = 6 years
Josi (very close, maybe slightly higher) = 7 years.

If you work off a 2 year deal, those two would have 2.7+3 (2.85) and 2.5+3 (2.75) respectively. I would think Brodie comes in just below those two if he takes a 2 year deal, but with two guys in his age group, with similar experience, get 6 and 7 year deals, it gives the agent ammunition to fight for term.

From the GM's point of view: Brodie might have similar "experience" to Voynov in that they have very similar number of regular season games played in the NHL but most people argue that performance dictates the contract, not games played.

Brodie in 104 games in the NHL has 4 goals and 24 assists (28 points)
Voynov has 102 games, 14 goals, 31 assists (45 points)
Josi has 100 games, 10 goals, 34 assists (34 points)

On top of that, Josi has 10 playoff games at the NHL level and Voynov is a playoff monster with 38 games played, 7 goals, 9 assists (16 points) in two seasons. Voynov has almost double Brodie's regular season goal total in just the playoffs!

Ignoring the playoffs, if Voynov is considered a $4.1M cap hit player for the next 6 years then those point production totals would put Brodie at a $2.5M cap hit for the next 6 years. Of course, Josi's numbers are more forgiving but they still only put Brodie at $3.2M (for 7 years).

Finally, the GM should point out that Brodie is not playing at the same level as either of the other guys. Voynov and Josi are both #2 on their respective team's for minutes per game and Brodie was #4 last season on a defensively bad Flames team.

So far, Brodie is still banking on potential whereas Voynov is already performing on another level. If Brodie wants Voynov's contract then he should take a 1-2 year deal now and earn the big contract by proving he can play up to his potential. Otherwise he should sign a long term contract in the $2.5-3.2M range.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Does anyone know if Boyd signed?

Yeah it's nerve whacking that Boyd is signed yet. The Flames #1 priority should be giving this guy a contract! Forget everything else until he is signed.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Hamonic's another comparable with a near identical contract to Josi, 3.9M for 7 years. He has pretty much an entire extra season played at the same age and did see the most playing time in the playoffs, which meant tasked with trying to shut down players like Crosby and Malkin. So there's still room to argue that Brodie isn't at his level but another young NHL defender only coming into his own this last season with a lot to prove who got a 7 year contract.

I agree that I would like to see him sign a bridge contract, even if it means having to face a higher cap hit down the road, but I can understand if his side is trying to fight for a long term contract.

[Imported_Aussie]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Voynov has a ring and Josi has 48 games of stepping up in a world without Ryan Suter.

Brodie has 13 games as a #1. He famously played 26 minutes in a 9-0 loss and was somehow even. To me, his proper contract comparable is PK Subban; short term. 2 years. Win a Norris, we'll take care of you.

I think Brodie is a gem. Giving young D pay for potential type deals is a bad idea. He's 23, he doesn't need to make all his money on this deal.

I'm not disagreeing with your point - but if Brodie's camp are hell bent on a long term deal, lowball him.
Agents will always use a comparable who is a bit above where their guy is - you don't start negotiations from a position of weakness.
Using the above comparables as players he has yet to reach the level of, tell him a long term deal will average 3.3-3.5M or a short term deal will average 2.3-2.5M, then have potential to jump depending on performance.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

I'm not disagreeing with your point - but if Brodie's camp are hell bent on a long term deal, lowball him.
Agents will always use a comparable who is a bit above where their guy is - you don't start negotiations from a position of weakness.
Using the above comparables as players he has yet to reach the level of, tell him a long term deal will average 3.3-3.5M or a short term deal will average 2.3-2.5M, then have potential to jump depending on performance.

Thing is, I do not think that is lowballing. Brodie hasn't done the things that those other guys have to have earned those other guy's contracts. He has less point production and plays a less important role than all three of the guys he is being compared to. When you pro-rate the Josi contract to Brodie's point production $3.2M for 7 years is all he has earned. The Flames would sign that contract in a heartbeat as it is a pretty safe gamble that he can become a top pairing Dman and if not, that is a good price for a second pair guy.

Brodie should be thinking about signing the short term contract and playing his way into the #2 spot on the roster so that he can increase his production and thus earn the Voynov equivalent dollars.

[Flash Walken]

I think Brodie's salary comparable is more along the lines of Luca Sbisa and Michael Del Zotto than Hamonic or Josi, who I think are much better players at this point.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think Brodie's salary comparable is more along the lines of Luca Sbisa and Michael Del Zotto than Hamonic or Josi, who I think are much better players at this point.

I dont agree. These players have shown much more than Brodie to date. Brodie has shown he can step up his minutes and play a bigger role. However, it was for a short period in which he did that...say the last 25 games of the season. Also, he didn't put up top pairing points.

$4MM over 2 years should be a fair deal. If Brodie continues to break out and puts up big points then you give him a Gio type contract at that point...maybe more if he becomes a higher offense D.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Husky

I dont agree. These players have shown much more than Brodie to date. Brodie has shown he can step up his minutes and play a bigger role. However, it was for a short period in which he did that...say the last 25 games of the season. Also, he didn't put up top pairing points.

$4MM over 2 years should be a fair deal. If Brodie continues to break out and puts up big points then you give him a Gio type contract at that point...maybe more if he becomes a higher offense D.

yeah, 1.9-2.25 is where I think the starting point will be in terms of salary, ending point on an escalating deal is probably about 2.6-2.75 depending on duration of the deal.

[Ryan Coke]

On qr77 tonight Feaster talked about ow Brodie's agent is looking for a 3 year deal, vs 1 or 2 that Feaster has offered. He did counter with what the Flames thought a 3 year deal with look like from their perspective.

Feaster did talk about this being a bridge contract, so that he can prove himself and get bigger term and money at the end of it.

I actually don't understand why Brodie's camp would want 3 years. I think he will have his position solidified nicely, and likely as a very good defenceman in 2 years, and he will be able to get much more money at the end of this next contract than he could get now. It makes more sense for him, IMO.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

^^ when is he ufa?

[Enoch Root]

UFA in 4 years

3 years at $3m per is fine by me

[blender]

Well, I think we all like TJ Brodie, I know I do, and I hope we get him signed and he develops into the player we all think he can be, and that he has a great career with the Flames, and even raises the Cup, but holy smokes, Indy! Seven-year-deal??? >3mil/year???

Crazy talk. He's done nothing but show some potential. Hold the line Feaster!

[EYE_Overstand]

i believe feaster is trying to sign him to a 2 year 3-3.5 million deal. anything more than 2 million a year is just crazy talk with such a small body of work. People on this board are saying he should be making Subban Salary (2-3 million a year) which is just absurd.

If he really wants long term money, then show and prove on a one year deal. If you continue to make strives and improvement, then your agents sale will be allot easier.

[Fire]

Subban is severely underpaid so I don't think you can use him as an example. Brodie at $2.25 /yr for 2 seasons if very reasonable. Butler is making $1.7 million, that automatically bumps up Brodie contract over $2 million.

[EYE_Overstand]

Originally Posted by Fire

Subban is severely underpaid so I don't think you can use him as an example. Brodie at $2.25 /yr for 2 seasons if very reasonable. Butler is making $1.7 million, that automatically bumps up Brodie contract over $2 million.

Subban took a bridge contract and will make significantly more on his next then if he signed long term last year.

also butler has played 250+ games vs TJs 101 games

Points Butler = 59 TJ = 28

i think you have to pay these RFAs what they are worth now more than signing them with the premium

with that said i hope Brodie turns into a Drew Doughty etc... as of right now.... he just finished his elc and there is no need to over pay someone at this moment

[Flamette]

Wondering if the Brodie camp is looking for a longer term deal due to the upcoming youth infusion over the next few years...

[FAN]

I think all the talk about guys like Roman Josi being comparables and getting term is pretty much irrelevant. I think "term" can really only be used to adjust the dollars and not be used as a sole sticking point in contract negotiations unless it's about when the contract ends (e.g. whether contract ends a year before a player can become a UFA). The way the CBA is set up, RFAs are allowed to make fair money (through arbitration) but have no choice when it comes to term. For RFAs without arbitration rights, they can always accept the qualifying offer until you obtain those arbitration rights.

If Josi can be used as a comparable, what Brodie's agent can do is argue that Josi left money on the table in exchange for term and so Brodie should be paid at least the $2.5M-$3M Josi will make the next two years. On the other hand, Feaster can argue that Nashville bought some UFA years and so Josi's salary for his RFA years are inflated.

With that said, we really don't know what's holding things up and I'm not concerned yet. There are some notable RFAs who should be no brainer signings who haven't signed yet. Maybe Brodie wants term and Feaster is unwilling to give it to him or maybe Brodie wants a one year contract for fair money and Feaster is only offering him a 2-3 year contract because he wants to lock up Brodie to a cheap contract for the next 2-3 years. I am not going to assume that Brodie is only interested in a long term contract because I think that's pretty stupid. It's always about a balance between term and money.