News from the Draft combine

[PlayfulGenius]

Does it make sense to focus on the players that perform well at the combine??? Or does it make sense to get excited about the ones that are rated right along side them based on their hockey skills, but have yet to develop fully??

Isn't their more potential in the guys that don't do as well, in some cases?

[dammage79]

Bogdan Yakimov came up more than a few times in that list. I want the Flames to nab him. I'm calling mega sleeper pick on this kid.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

This is another situation where the draft combine becomes important. Pulock was on my radar before the combine, but now I really hope Calgary finds a way to draft him. Morin and Rychel also seemed to have very strong performances.

Jon Rheault beat Iginla two summers ago in the Flames overall fitness testing; being a fit athlete doesn't necessarily make you a great hockey player

Pelech, Chucko and Brett Sutter consistently performed great in Flames fitness tests as well

[moon]

Originally Posted by PlayfulGenius

Does it make sense to focus on the players that perform well at the combine??? Or does it make sense to get excited about the ones that are rated right along side them based on their hockey skills, but have yet to develop fully??

Isn't their more potential in the guys that don't do as well, in some cases?

I would think the combine should have a small role in picking a guy or not and that a poor performance would be more relevant than a good one as that may indicate some physical/health concern.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Jon Rheault beat Iginla two summers ago in the Flames overall fitness testing; being a fit athlete doesn't necessarily make you a great hockey player

Pelech, Chucko and Brett Sutter consistently performed great in Flames fitness tests as well

Agreed, and that wasn't really the point I was trying to make (as I think you well know). The point is that guys who are very average going into the draft combine can greatly increase their value by having good/great results at the combine.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Agreed, and that wasn't really the point I was trying to make (as I think you well know). The point is that guys who are very average going into the draft combine can greatly increase their value by having good/great results at the combine.

Nobody average is going to greatly increase their value by having good/great results at the combine. I think you are overestimating the importance of these tests. They make almost zero to no difference at all to the rankings unless a major health concern is revealed. It helps somewhat for projecting how much more strength a player might be able to grow into if anything.

Scouts are basing the vast majority of their opinion of a player on their on-ice play. The interviews count for very little and the fitness testing even less so. If a player is weak or lacks conditioning it will show up in their play. Scouts have already taken physical development into account in their scouting reports before the combine ever happens.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

This is another situation where the draft combine becomes important. Pulock was on my radar before the combine, but now I really hope Calgary finds a way to draft him. Morin and Rychel also seemed to have very strong performances.

There are a few D prospects that really intrigue me for the other 2 picks.

Pulock is top of my list, I reckon he goes between 12-17. Any D-man who garners comparisons to Al MacInnis (and not just his shot) is a winner in my books.

I like Shea Theodore, Josh Morrissey, Morin, Zadorov & Mueller as well.

I seriously cannot remember the last draft that had so many promising, high end prospects (2003??). I think it would be wise to hang onto all 3 picks.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Nobody average is going to greatly increase their value by having good/great results at the combine. I think you are overestimating the importance of these tests. They make almost zero to no difference at all to the rankings unless a major health concern is revealed. It helps somewhat for projecting how much more strength a player might be able to grow into if anything.

Scouts are basing the vast majority of their opinion of a player on their on-ice play. The interviews count for very little and the fitness testing even less so. If a player is weak or lacks conditioning it will show up in their play. Scouts have already taken physical development into account in their scouting reports before the combine ever happens.

And if it really was a red flag before the combine, they would likely go straight to the source - his junior head coach and the strength and conditioning coach. They'd be able to tell you a lot more about his commitment to fitness over a season than the combine tests.

[Bourque's Twin]

In terms of drafting a "natural" athlete one has to look at fast twitching muscles.
Vertical and standing long jump indicate that. This is must harder to train for than strength and cardio. Wingspan is another important measurement and it's completely god given.

[bubbsy]

ya, i think scouts teams take a players physicality, battle and strength during gameplay more into consideration that these of ice phyical tests.

wouldn't the combine physical metrics be of a bit more value if they used on ice tests (ie. skating speed, endurance, shot speed, and other drills being done side by side with other prospects)?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

In terms of drafting a "natural" athlete one has to look at fast twitching muscles.
Vertical and standing long jump indicate that. This is must harder to train for than strength and cardio. Wingspan is another important measurement and it's completely god given.

The VO2 max test is by far the most important ---It shows how fit a player is and by extrapolation how hard he is willing to work. Sven Baertschi won this test in his combine.

Monahan did well in this.

Barkov and Nichushkin did not show up in the top of any categories other than Nichuskin's wing span. Lindholm was strong in the Push and pull strength. you would expect that these guys would be stronger as they were playing against Men.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by JayP

And if it really was a red flag before the combine, they would likely go straight to the source - his junior head coach and the strength and conditioning coach. They'd be able to tell you a lot more about his commitment to fitness over a season than the combine tests.

This is the first and only time that you get to test a player under the same controlled tests.

I would not be surprised that all Russian hockey players do 200 push ups at their home work out facilities.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

ya, i think scouts teams take a players physicality, battle and strength during gameplay more into consideration that these of ice phyical tests.

wouldn't the combine physical metrics be of a bit more value if they used on ice tests (ie. skating speed, endurance, shot speed, and other drills being done side by side with other prospects)?

Absolutely. I imagine that is what goes on at the team's combines.

All the skill tests.

What a waste of an opportunity.

That is like not having a 40 yard sprint at the NFL combine.

[ricardodw]

Jankowski did well at the combine.

I would bet that the Flames pay more attention to the results than other teams..... especially with the later two first round picks.

You are trying to guess what the player will look like at 21 when he might be NHL ready.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Bogdan Yakimov came up more than a few times in that list. I want the Flames to nab him. I'm calling mega sleeper pick on this kid.

Where is this kid slotted to go in the draft? is he a 3rd rounder?

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The VO2 max test is by far the most important ---It shows how fit a player is and by extrapolation how hard he is willing to work. Sven Baertschi won this test in his combine.

Monahan did well in this.

Barkov and Nichushkin did not show up in the top of any categories other than Nichuskin's wing span. Lindholm was strong in the Push and pull strength. you would expect that these guys would be stronger as they were playing against Men.

All 3 Flames picks could realistically be from the Top 10 of this test.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The VO2 max test is by far the most important ---It shows how fit a player is and by extrapolation how hard he is willing to work. Sven Baertschi won this test in his combine.

Monahan did well in this.

Barkov and Nichushkin did not show up in the top of any categories other than Nichuskin's wing span. Lindholm was strong in the Push and pull strength. you would expect that these guys would be stronger as they were playing against Men.

Barkov didn't take part as far as I know. He isn't even cleared to skate yet because of his shoulder injury.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Nobody average is going to greatly increase their value by having good/great results at the combine. I think you are overestimating the importance of these tests. They make almost zero to no difference at all to the rankings unless a major health concern is revealed. It helps somewhat for projecting how much more strength a player might be able to grow into if anything.

Scouts are basing the vast majority of their opinion of a player on their on-ice play. The interviews count for very little and the fitness testing even less so. If a player is weak or lacks conditioning it will show up in their play. Scouts have already taken physical development into account in their scouting reports before the combine ever happens.

I think it's too simplistic to see it as something that will by itself elevate or downgrade a prospect in most cases. Teams build profiles on the prospects. They want to have an accurate overall view of what kind of players and people they are. For this they welcome any kind of reliable information, and what they can see with their own eyes at the combine is very valuable.

It might not drastically change how the teams view the prospects in most cases but it does give them confidence when their previous information turns out to be accurate. Or it might give them some extra doubts when the player somehow doesn't quite seem to be what they expected from previous scouting. Its effect can't be quantified because their decision will be based on an overall view of the prospect that takes everything into account, but I think it's very good for the teams to get to interact with the players and observe them off the ice.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

Where is this kid slotted to go in the draft? is he a 3rd rounder?

So far I have heard late second to late fourth round. 6'5" 200 lbs left handed center who is by all accounts a bull on the puck.

A Russian Freddy Gauthier if you will. Also says he will go to the AHL or NHL. Just wants to be in North America.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

ya, i think scouts teams take a players physicality, battle and strength during gameplay more into consideration that these of ice phyical tests.

wouldn't the combine physical metrics be of a bit more value if they used on ice tests (ie. skating speed, endurance, shot speed, and other drills being done side by side with other prospects)?

The ability to be physical during the game and have on-ice strength is absolutely determined by your physical fitness.

Obviously being in great shape won't necessarily make you a great hockey player, but if someone is ranked top around 15 or so, and they put a lot of effort into the fitness side of their game, it can affect draft ranking. Maybe not necessarily AT the draft, but their game is likely to improve throughout the year to the point where scouts will rank them higher.