[PGT] Flames fall to Coyotes 4-0 - A whole lot of NOTHIN'

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Red-Mile-DJ

BOOM goes CP.

[Phanuthier]

Its kind of funny reading this thread, and all the disappointment; I know its a loss, but we got beat by a better team. I thought we played ok, but the reality is the Coyotes are a better team. I was watching the Coyotes broadcast today and they said a few times that the Coyotes can't let win's slip away from the "Flames" of the league (i.e the low hanging fruit) ... this has probably been said before in another broadcast that I wasn't paying as much attention to, but we're the team that gets the backups (not this game, though) and the type of team that others think they can't let points slip away from and they can't take for granted its an easy win.

Really, its the reality of the situation. I thought the Flames played ok...

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Its kind of funny reading this thread, and all the disappointment; I know its a loss, but we got beat by a better team. I thought we played ok, but the reality is the Coyotes are a better team. I was watching the Coyotes broadcast today and they said a few times that the Coyotes can't let win's slip away from the "Flames" of the league (i.e the low hanging fruit) ... this has probably been said before in another broadcast that I wasn't paying as much attention to, but we're the team that gets the backups (not this game, though) and the type of team that others think they can't let points slip away from and they can't take for granted its an easy win.

Really, its the reality of the situation. I thought the Flames played ok...

Coyotes play a better team game but they are NOT a better team (personnel-wise) Tippett works magic with that team in this way.

This is the sort of thing that irks me most. The disrespect from outsiders, i've noticed how we've been getting backups from our opposition in their back to backs too. And I can only say that this horrible, horrible wrong must soon be righted. But we must first wait and acquire MacKinnon, then they have my full permission to go and make these teams, and the league eat it.

I dunno. They got beat around by a harder working, less talented Coyotes team that has their starting goaltender, who is playing in mid season form. That's what I saw here.

And they so very much remind me of the Sutter Flames of old.

[868904]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Last I checked (yesterday) only Florida gives up more goals per game than the Flames.

That's not on the goalie. We need to make a trade for defensive minded players.

Feaster has really under estimated the importance of quality centremen. I think he just thought that all Lecavalier and Richards did was score points, he just doesn't understand that the key to defending and having proper breakouts out of your zone depends heavily on your centremen coming back.

Right now Stajan is the only guy who has any clue what he's doing in the defensive zone. I was laughing so hard at a shift tonight where Jackman was down behind our net trying to help out the defense but was just getting in the way, he wasn't even the centremen, it's just a mess out there.

When the Flames were contending or even competitive, they were strong down the middle, they didn't have the big "no. 1 centremen" but they had good two way guys like Conroy, Langkow, Yelle, Even Lombardi. But every year since 2009, the quality of centremen has been getting worse and worse.

I think the defensive breakdowns are because they don't have any good two way centers and the situation is compounded by wingers who don't commit to support the defense.

[expatflame]

^^Well we did have Jokinen...

[DeluxeMoustache]

^^^ who demonstrated his ceiling and was dispatched for a reason.

[expatflame]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^^^ who demonstrated his ceiling and was dispatched for a reason.

His ceiling in $$ or points? He was a serviceable No.2 centerman and put up decent points. He was particularly effective in skating with the puck into the zone which was the problem that the other poster was alluding to.

If that is indeed the problem, then we should have at least kept Jokinen.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Olli was bad at faceoffs and had a pretty bad 2 way game.

And the poster was stating the importance of a 2 way game outright, no allusion.

[Captain_Obvious]

Just finished watching the game.

Phoenix plays the most painful excruciating style of hockey ever. I want money from them for forcing me to sit through that garbage.

Lastly, I want to punch each of those officials in the nose for the amount of my life that was wasted sitting there watching them NOT drop the puck tonight. I'm quickly beginning to think that job has gone to guys who just want to steal seconds of TV time acting like a-holes standing there doing nothing purposely delaying the start of the game. Drop the effing puck already!

Between those two things it was a very frustrating evening of watching hockey.

[BloodFetish]

..

[Yakbutter]

I'm of the belief, that we have a big enough sample size to come to peace with the fact that this team is not very good. How many games is it going to take before people start to look at the team objectively.

Don't tell me we will be better when Kipper returns. Please refer to Kippers stats and realise he has been performing just as bad as the rest of the goaltenders. I don't want to hear the injury excuse, every team has injuries, on good teams players step up and play better when their top guys are out.

I know that Iginla , Cammalleri and Kipper have built up a lot of good will with the fans. However their good will has run out in my opinion. These players make up more than 30% of the teams payroll and they have been A DISASTER so far this season. These three are mailing it in and not helping the team win.

Feaster is also to take responsibility here. Like other posters have said, he went into the season assuming kipper would play the majority of games and didn't bother finding a quality nhl backup. Instead of filling the need for an nhl goalie, he has been going through the trash pile giving us AHL goaltenders. He is responsible for managing this team and he has failed.

I understand people want to be optimistic but enough is enough. This team has serious flaws with it and it looks like it's going to finish bottom 5 this year.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

I'm of the belief, that we have a big enough sample size to come to peace with the fact that this team is not very good. How many games is it going to take before people start to look at the team objectively.

Don't tell me we will be better when Kipper returns. Please refer to Kippers stats and realise he has been performing just as bad as the rest of the goaltenders. I don't want to hear the injury excuse, every team has injuries, on good teams players step up and play better when their top guys are out.

I know that Iginla , Cammalleri and Kipper have built up a lot of good will with the fans. However their good will has run out in my opinion. These players make up more than 30% of the teams payroll and they have been A DISASTER so far this season. These three are mailing it in and not helping the team win.

Feaster is also to take responsibility here. Like other posters have said, he went into the season assuming kipper would play the majority of games and didn't bother finding a quality nhl backup. Instead of filling the need for an nhl goalie, he has been going through the trash pile giving us AHL goaltenders. He is responsible for managing this team and he has failed.

I understand people want to be optimistic but enough is enough. This team has serious flaws with it and it looks like it's going to finish bottom 5 this year.

If it isn't obvious after 260 games you probably need to ask your mum how much she used to drink.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

If it isn't obvious after 260 games you probably need to ask your mum how much she used to drink.

Maybe you need to ask yourself if you are as smart as you think you are? because that comment was fairly stupid considering we have a new coach and half a new roster.

swing and a miss champ.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

Maybe you need to ask yourself if you are as smart as you think you are? because that comment was fairly stupid considering we have a new coach and half a new roster.

swing and a miss champ.

And yet here we are about the same as last year and the year before and the year before, same core and same problems.

[vilzeh]

Flames is the team where goalies come to die.

[Yakbutter]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

And yet here we are about the same as last year and the year before and the year before, same core and same problems.

I guess it's really just a matter of what theory you want to believe. Is it that Brent Sutter was holding the team back? The core of Iginla and Kipper have not gotten the job done in years and they need to go?

I've always thought it would be stupid to pin the teams lack of success on Iginla's and Kippper's performance. In the past, at least Iginla was still scoring goals and Kipper was playing at a high level. I just think that this year in particular, they have been unbelievably bad.

Cammy belongs with iginla and kipper. Outside of his 3 goal game he has largely been invisible this season. 3 of the teams big guns have contributed almost nothing.

[JeanLucPicard]

Team relies too much on Iginla doing good. Whenever he is doing well, team wins. His presence makes every other player not feel as resposible for the win as they should. They have this "we can always fall back and count on Iginla for a win" mentality, but unfortunately at the same time this over-expectation has a negative effect on Iginla himself. He has too much pressure on to perform.

We need a team without any "star" or "legendary" players.

[bubbsy]

tanguay, iginla, cammalleri didn't show up, and that's the game.

we're closer to the bottom of the league standings than we are to a playoff spot.

This team needs to stop with the win 1, suck next, routine. I want to see a 5 game win streak, or a 5 game losing streak. I don't have faith in the management group to bring "intellectual honesty" to the table if the team continues this "sub-par 0.500, hanging around 12th" spot.

I will hate it even more if Kipper/Backlund/Baertchi injuries are looked at as reasons for the turmoil, and thought of as the saving grace for the season.

I wonder if our record would have been the same, better, or worse if tanguay/iginla were out of the lineup instead of the 3 above mentioned...

My money is still on flames management expecting that when kipper gets back, him and iggy will get all 2004 on the league's ass...

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by JeanLucPicard

Team relies too much on Iginla doing good. Whenever he is doing well, team wins. His presence makes every other player not feel as resposible for the win as they should. They have this "we can always fall back and count on Iginla for a win" mentality, but unfortunately at the same time this over-expectation has a negative effect on Iginla himself. He has too much pressure on to perform.

We need a team without any "star" or "legendary" players.

Wrong answer... To succeed in this league you absolutely need star players. If the rest of the team thinks the stars will get it done, then that is a coaching and management fail. Coaching cos they can't motivate the non stars and management cos they brought in such weak minded players. Lunch bucket hard working teams will have their lunch handed to them. Balance is key.


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[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Its kind of funny reading this thread, and all the disappointment; I know its a loss, but we got beat by a better team. I thought we played ok, but the reality is the Coyotes are a better team. I was watching the Coyotes broadcast today and they said a few times that the Coyotes can't let win's slip away from the "Flames" of the league (i.e the low hanging fruit) ... this has probably been said before in another broadcast that I wasn't paying as much attention to, but we're the team that gets the backups (not this game, though) and the type of team that others think they can't let points slip away from and they can't take for granted its an easy win.

Really, its the reality of the situation. I thought the Flames played ok...

Personnel wise the Coyotes may have less overall talent than the Blue Jackets so you will have a hard time convincing me they are a better hockey team on paper. However they have IMO one of the top 3 head coaches in the league who seems to be able to convince every single player on the roster to play a team game. That Coyotes team playing unified never seems to have problems with a team of individuals like the Calgary Flames. The Flames simply don't play a team game and haven't since Darryl Sutter stepped down. Brent tried and was close but at the end of the day the Calgary Flames have been a team of individuals and now the overall talent level has deteriorated they just aren't good enough to win that way.