I like Jay Feaster

[JayP]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

PMM would be the best to comment on this - but I believe he has stated in the past that the farm club is in fact playing the same style as the big club.

Here's the post I was thinking of:

"I respectfully disagree with this.

Before the season started, the Heat and Flames coaching staff went off to a nearby resort to bond and discuss strategies to make it as easy a transition for the players as possible (this includes systems play).

The only two differences I've noticed between the two teams is the forechecking scheme and the Flames defensemen jumping up in the play more often (because they have those kinds of d-men - the Heat don't).

The Heat play a 2-1-2 forecheck with two forecheckers applying pressure down low, while Hartley seems to opt for the more conservative 2-2-1 forecheck (which I personally can't stand).

Personally, I don't see much of a difference between the two teams. If anything, the Heat have to play a more conservative defensive system because they don't have any flashy d-men. But when the Heat did have flashy d-men like Wilson, Connelly, and Brodie, they played a much more aggressive, "hold the line," "jump in the rush" type of game."

Considering what he says, it does sound like there's some major differences in the system. Vastly different forecheck and not having the defense jumping up in the rush changes the entire transition attack. I'm sure they play similar in their own end, but there really isn't much variation from team to team in that regard. It's more about how they attack that changes in systems tend to show up, IMO.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by neo45

Pretty unfair to bold guys names who are still long shots to make the NHL, but not bold Bouma's name when he has panned out pretty well for his draft position

or Kieth Aulie

Or that friendly giant from Bonavista, Newfoundland

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by JayP

Considering what he says, it does sound like there's some major differences in the system. Vastly different forecheck and not having the defense jumping up in the rush changes the entire transition attack. I'm sure they play similar in their own end, but there really isn't much variation from team to team in that regard. It's more about how they attack that changes in systems tend to show up, IMO.

Perhaps again I'm hoping he can add some more insight.

He was responding to this post, so he does seem to disagree that they aren't playing the same system
Originally Posted by EddyBeers
Anyone else find it odd that the Heat do not play the same system as the Flames? There seems to be a lack of cohesion in the organization.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Basically to add on to what JiriHrdina already posted, I have to hold my opinion that the difference between the two systems aren't all that different.

JayP is correct in that the level of talent between the farm and parent club does change the complexion a bit, but not to the point where it'd affect the basic system.

I've already mentioned that the defensive systems are somewhat different because the Heat have Piskula, Breen, Callahan, etc. rather than speedy and creative guys like Bouw, Wideman, Brodie. The Heat are far superior at being able to actually clear their zone and get the puck out. It's a rather simple support system. One D down low, one in front of the net at all times and the centre deep helping the D-man. When they get the puck, it's a simple chip off the boards and out. It seems Hartley likes to pass it out of the zone instead of Ward's strategy of chipping it out and then chasing it.

The Heat play a trap in the neutral zone that's sort of set up in a 2-3 format. So there's always a forward (on either side) chasing the puck holder and three men back so they can retrieve the puck when the opposing team inevitably dumps it in. Rinse and repeat haha.

In Hartley's system it seems like the dump and chase is almost a worst case scenario, whereas the Heat are comprised of about two-and-a-half lines of grinders/energy guys, so the dump and chase is best suited for them. When we had two lines with guys like Sven, Street, Walter, Kolanos, Byron, Sly, and Horak, they played a Hartley-like passing system to enter the zone.

In other words, it's a matter of what each player's skill set allows. The Heat defense isn't flashy, so they play a meat and potatoes system in their own zone. The Heat forwards are mostly grinders, so they play a dump and chase game, whereas the Heat are smaller and skilled, so they play a perimeter game.

I think the Heat players that get called up are well aware of their skill set and which system to play. I sincerely believe that Ward panders to their individual abilities and prepares them for if/when they get called up so they can play that system. The best hard example I can give you guys is the Sylvester/Walter/Kolanos line plays a similar style to the Flames top lines. The Jackman/Begin/Comeau line is more reflective of the style the Heat have to play.

Sorry for the long-winded answer haha. Hope it satisfies your questions about the two systems.

[Vinny01]

I have to say now after watching this team the way it is built Feaster has made some huge flaws. The upgrade in skill is great but the fact we have 1 centre in the lineup and nothing in the way of toughness this team is poised for a bottom 5 finish. Teams like the kings Yotes and press are going to grind us into the ground every time we play them.

Moves need to be made soon!

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I have to say now after watching this team the way it is built Feaster has made some huge flaws. The upgrade in skill is great but the fact we have 1 centre in the lineup and nothing in the way of toughness this team is poised for a bottom 5 finish. Teams like the kings Yotes and press are going to grind us into the ground every time we play them.

Moves need to be made soon!

make moves to get out of a bottom 5 finish?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

make moves to get out of a bottom 5 finish?

Well I am all for a rebuild but then sell off assets. I don't think the flames do that. Honestly the way I hear the ownership views this team Burke will be GM here next season

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well I am all for a rebuild but then sell off assets. I don't think the flames do that. Honestly the way I hear the ownership views this team Burke will be GM here next season

Burke will never get a shot at being the GM of the Calgary Flames before John Weisbrod does. That doesn't mean I think Feaster will get fired any time soon, but if he ever does, it'll be Weisbrod to replace him.

[sa226]

I could be crazy, but I think Jokinen would thrive in Hartley's system.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I have to say now after watching this team the way it is built Feaster has made some huge flaws. The upgrade in skill is great but the fact we have 1 centre in the lineup and nothing in the way of toughness this team is poised for a bottom 5 finish. Teams like the kings Yotes and press are going to grind us into the ground every time we play them.

Moves need to be made soon!

I agree with this. See, if the Flames was a rebuilding team, I would be all for simply adding talent. Adding talent without regard for fit is how I'm seeing Feaster's moves right now. It just seems to me that Feaster went out and got the most talented guys he could get and go for there.

[Inglewood Jack]

sorry everyone...just wanted to see this sandwiched in between the 6 Fire Feaster threads for cheap laughs

[Spinach]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Burke will never get a shot at being the GM of the Calgary Flames before John Weisbrod does. That doesn't mean I think Feaster will get fired any time soon, but if he ever does, it'll be Weisbrod to replace him.

I just realized that Weisbrod whispering bad advice into Feaster's ear was actually all part of an elaborate ruse to get Feaster fired, and himself into the GM's chair.

[Madrox]

Originally Posted by sa226

I could be crazy, but I think Jokinen would thrive in Hartley's system.

You're not crazy. He would be having a great year right now.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Burke will never get a shot at being the GM of the Calgary Flames before John Weisbrod does. That doesn't mean I think Feaster will get fired any time soon, but if he ever does, it'll be Weisbrod to replace him.

I hope not.

No offense to Weisbrod who doesn't seem to be good or bad but time for a full search with a number of different candidates with different ideas.

No need to promote someone from the group that has been part of the problem.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by moon

I hope not.

No offense to Weisbrod who doesn't seem to be good or bad but time for a full search with a number of different candidates with different ideas.

No need to promote someone from the group that has been part of the problem.

Yea i am not so sure what the point of firing Feaster would be then. These two seem to have the same ideas. If Feaster was canned before the deadline, Weisbrod would probably keep on working on the trades that he and Feaster were working on. Unless for some reason he has a different approach than Feaster and Feaster has been holding him back, i don't see different results for the future than what Feaster would announce.

[BigBCalgary]

I may be crazy but I still like Feaster and his group for running this team. I don`t think there`s a chance in hell that O`Riellygate and all of the potential ramifications were not discussed behind closed doors within the organization.
I would say Edwards and King were informed of the intent as well as the potential for extreme scrutiny and decided that it was worth it to stick it to division rival Colarado. The wording in the MOU is sketchy at best, as pointed out by some of our lawyer friends and could be exposed for future benefit of all. At some point someone over Feaster`s head said Eff it...go for it...we got your back.
If he does get fired I will be very surprised.
The best thing Feaster`s got going for him is that he`s governing by committee. You can`t tell me that All of Feaster, Weisbroad, Holditch, that Mike Burke guy and anyone else that may have been involved weren`t aware of all of the possibilities. As well as that they were not discussed at length by all parties eventually including King and Edwards.
I don`t care what team your talking about nobody has the autonomy to make a 10 million dollar decision on their own, without consent of the people signing the checks.
Embarrassing...yes, but they knew going in, the potential was there. In the end I don`t think the powers at be care what anyone - especially the media - thinks, and I am happy for that.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by BigBCalgary

I may be crazy but I still like Feaster and his group for running this team. I don`t think there`s a chance in hell that O`Riellygate and all of the potential ramifications were not discussed behind closed doors within the organization.
I would say Edward and King were informed of the intent as well as the potential for extreme scrutiny and decided that it was worth it to stick it to division rival Colarado. The wording in the MOU is sketchy at best, as pointed out by some of our lawyer friends and could be exposed for future benefit of all. At some point someone over Feaster`s head said Eff it...go for it...we got your back.
If he does get fired I will be very surprised.
The best thing Feaster`s got going for him is that he`s governing by committee. You can`t tell me that All of Feaster, Weisbroad, Holditch, that Mike Burke guy and anyone else that may have been involved weren`t aware of all of the possibilities. As well as that they were not discussed at length by all parties eventually including King and Edwards.
I don`t care what team your talking about nobody has the autonomy to make a 10 million dollar decision on their own, without consent of the people signing the checks.
Embarrassing...yes, but they knew going in, the potential was there. In the end I don`t think the powers at be care what anyone - especially the media - thinks, and I am happy for that.

So you think that the flames going into this did not care about the bad PR it would create?

Most gm's and agents are already very skeptical on the path that the flames are taking. Can't see how this helps sign players if their agnet tells them that Calgary is a bit of a mess.

What about the team on the ice that is probably going to be hounded by questions on something that was out of their control?

I have a hard time believing that with this fragile group and with the obstacles ahead of them, that the flames wanted to make it a little more unbearable.

[BigBCalgary]

I believe that the fan and media reaction was vastly underrated when the possibilities were discussed. I may be a man alone but I would prefer it if the powers in charge didn`t care so much about fan an media reactions that it colors their decision process. It`s OK with me even if the other teams question the process. All I want is the team to do is win at all costs. It does not matter to me how. I would hope that the powers at be share this sentiment.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by drPepper1

Darryl's Drafts

2003
9. D Dion Phaneuf
39 D Tim Ramholt
97 LW Ryan Donally
112. RW Jamie Tardif
143. RW Greg Moore
173. C Tyler Johnson
206. D Thomas Bellemare
240. LW Cam Cunning
270. LW Kevin Harvey

2004
24. LW Kris Chucko
70. C/LW Brandon Prust
98. C Dustin Boyd
118. C Aki Seitsonen
121. LW Kris Hogg
173. D Adam Pardy
182. LW/RW Fred Wikner
200. C Matthew Schneider
213. G James Spratt
279. RW Adam Cracknell

2005
26. D Matt Pelech
69. D Gord Baldwin
74. C Dan Ryder
111. RW J.D. Watt
128. G Kevin Lalande
158. G Matt Keetley
179. C Brett Sutter
221. D Myles Rumse

2006
26. G Leland Irving
87. C/RW John Armstrong
89. C Aaron Marvin
118. C Hugo Carpentier
149. RW Juuso Puustinen
179. C Jordan Fulton
187. LW Devin Didiomete
209. D Per Jonsson

2007
24. C Mikael Backlund
70. D John Negrin
116. D Keith Aulie
143. C Mickey Renaud
186. LW C.J. Severyn

2008
25. RW Greg Nemisz
48. C Mitch Wahl
78. LW Lance Bouma
108. LW Nicholas Larson
114. D T.J. Brodie
168. LW Ryley Grantham
198. D Alex Deilert

2009
23. D Tim Erixon
74. RW Ryan Howse
111. RW Henrik Bjorklund
141. C/LW Spencer Bennett
171. G Joni Ortio
201. C Gaelan Patterson

2010
64. C Max Reinhart
73. D Joey Leach
103. D John Ramage
108. C Bill Arnold
133. LW Michael Ferland
193. RW Patrick Holland

Feasters Draft

2011
13. Sven Baertschi
45. Markus Granlund
57. Tyler Wotherspoon
104. John Gaudreau
164. Laurent Brossoit

2012
21. Mark Jankowski
42. Patrick Sieloff
75. Jon Gillies
105. Brett Kulak**
124. Ryan Culkin**
165. Coda Gordon**
186. Matthew Deblouw**

I think we all know Feaster is the better GM when it comes to drafting

Sorry, a little late to this party.

When looking at the past drafts, you have to keep in mind a few points:

1) As others have mentioned, the 'hype' of each prospect, and the eventual 'fizzling out' they did. Don't count your chickens until they hatch. By this standard, Darryl Sutter is more of a 'proven' mind at the draft since Backlund and Brodie are regulars on the team, as compared to Baertschi only (though, this comparison is also incorrect and unfair due to the short amount of time).

2) As alluded above - the amount of time Feaster has been at the wheel. Time needs to be given to see if these picks pan out or not. Some of these almost 'sure things' will fizzle out, and then again some players you feel might never work out miraculously develop to become better than what they were ever thought to be.

3) It is not fair to compare them without comparing what they each had at their disposal. What did Darryl have when he became GM? There was barely a scouting department. Development? What? Darryl slowly built his drafting/development areas, and it took a lot of drafts to start reaping the benefits. Feaster is also reaping the benefits of this.

I don't know what Feaster did in Tampa, but I think the best way you can compare a GM to another GM in terms of drafting is their willingness to try and improve upon that facet. Darryl DID greatly expand both the scouting and the development programs on the Flames. Did Feaster do that in Tampa (or at least try? There may well not be any way of knowing this).

I just think comparing GMs against one another and their respective drafts is almost a futile exercise. Even if Feaster came in and started cutting the development program, and having terrible drafts, would he be 'terrible'? Unless you knew what the mandate was from the ownership group, it would be tough to gauge it.

No NHL team's GM drafts on his own. They each have their own team of scouts, and they all have their own budgets. Perhaps certain teams don't allow as many scouts, or allow enough international scouting, or enough of a travel budget, and so forth.

I, for one, am just happy that Darryl seemingly got buy-in from the owners to expand (or create) the Flames' drafting and development programs, and that Feaster is allowed to continue it (or even be expanding on it).

I do think that over the last few drafts, things have been improving, but it takes time to see the fruition of that body of work. To say that Darryl 'sucked' at drafting isn't quite true - unless he was given a budget and never cared to expand the scouting staff.

The Flames as a whole sucked at drafting (and development) because they put next to nothing in terms of an investment into it. Conversely, they do seem to be improving (and theoretically, SHOULD improve!) because they are investing more into drafting and development now. Sutter didn't always take the 'grinders' - but you could see that he probably felt he needed to take the 'safer' bets to make the NHL earlier on in his drafting, but then moved towards taking more 'gambles' with guys like Backlund, Erixon, Brodie, Bjorklund, etc., - all far from the 'prototypical Sutter picks'.

Flames have been evolving their scouting and development program throughout the tenures of the last 2 GMs, and I hope they continue down that path regardless who the GM is or what the respective GM's prior drafting ability was.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

So you think that the flames going into this did not care about the bad PR it would create?

Most gm's and agents are already very skeptical on the path that the flames are taking. Can't see how this helps sign players if their agnet tells them that Calgary is a bit of a mess.

What about the team on the ice that is probably going to be hounded by questions on something that was out of their control?

I have a hard time believing that with this fragile group and with the obstacles ahead of them, that the flames wanted to make it a little more unbearable.

This comes up a lot, and I've yet to see a solid quote from any GM or agent supporting this. And even if you find me a couple, that doesn't come close to 'most'. Honestly, it comes across as an outsider (ie: fan) projecting their emotions into GM and agent shoes.

About the bad PR, I would hope Flames expected some from tendering an offer sheet, as is always the case, but that it didn't dissuade them from attempting to acquire the near-mythical top-line center.

I very much doubt they expected the sh*tstorm created by that SN article. In my view that was an opinion piece: the journalist "was told" O'Reilly would have to pass through waivers but does not quote a league source. Could have been anybody. Hell, could have been Kypreos! And then he failed to do what all good journalist should, and that is present the other side. Did he even bother to contact the Flames for their side of the story?

I mentioned in the other thread it was shoddy journalism and I stand by that.