You respond to everyone else, I feel left out. That is, of course, because I am still waiting on your response to my post above, specifically my question, which read:
So, were you simply talking out your a**, do/did you not understand the respective powers of the US and Iranian militaries or do you actually believe the ridiculous statement you made? If so, please defend it.
I didn't reply because I thought it was cute that you forgot Israel was defeated by Lebanon with a far inferior group in Hezbullah.
To think Israel can't be defeated because of them having the best weapons is foolish. They were chased out of Lebanon in 2006 by not even a military but a terrorist organization. Iran has better weapons than the few they can smuggle into Gaza also.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iginla
I didn't reply because I thought it was cute that you forgot Israel was defeated by Lebanon with a far inferior group in Hezbullah.
To think Israel can't be defeated because of them having the best weapons is foolish. They were chased out of Lebanon in 2006 by not even a military but a terrorist organization. Iran has better weapons than the few they can smuggle into Gaza also.
Wow...i guess the UN brokered ceasefire and the following agreement by Israel to lift the naval blockade had nothing to do with the July war ending eh? Obviousl it wasnt the Israelis finest moment militarily, but to suggest Hezbollah "won" the war is pure nonsense.
I didn't reply because I thought it was cute that you forgot Israel was defeated by Lebanon with a far inferior group in Hezbullah.
To think Israel can't be defeated because of them having the best weapons is foolish. They were chased out of Lebanon in 2006 by not even a military but a terrorist organization. Iran has better weapons than the few they can smuggle into Gaza also.
You never cease to amaze me. Israel was not defeated by Hezbollah, Israel certainly did enough damage to Lebanon to demonstrate a serious threat to the entire region. Not only that, the Lebanese government basically did nothing. The result of the war was forcing Lebanon to guard their own border in order to prevent more rocket attacks against Israel. In a short period of time it looked like Israel could have demolished much of Lebanon. And the end result would have been a stronger Lebanon since they would have been without Hezbollah. In the end Hezbollah still exists because the world is so messed up.
Where do you get your information from? Seriously, watch the video I posted.
I didn't reply because I thought it was cute that you forgot Israel was defeated by Lebanon with a far inferior group in Hezbullah.
To think Israel can't be defeated because of them having the best weapons is foolish. They were chased out of Lebanon in 2006 by not even a military but a terrorist organization. Iran has better weapons than the few they can smuggle into Gaza also.
Not referencing this particular scenario, but strong powers in general have a tendency to be beaten or worn down by weak forces in asymmetric warfare, at least since the 20th century or so. It's the nature of the fight. The moment Hamas starts being armed like a conventional military force and begins to fight a conventional war is the moment they get obliterated by the IDF.
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Not referencing this particular scenario, but strong powers in general have a tendency to be beaten or worn down by weak forces in asymmetric warfare, at least since the 20th century or so. It's the nature of the fight. The moment Hamas starts being armed like a conventional military force and begins to fight a conventional war is the moment they get obliterated by the IDF.
Yup when you have a military with a set rules of engagement, a set target list and set objectives versus a force with no rules of engagement who's sole ambition is to bleed you and kill as many of you as possible in the worst way possible no matter what the cost, then you have a distinct advantage.
It was a theory originally created by General Giap in Vietnam who reached the conclusion that if you killed enough of the French they eventually wouldn't send anymore, then fought the same kind of war against the Americans. It was later perfected in Vietnam.
If there is a war on the ground it will be interesting to see if Israel adapted to their issues in Lebanon.
The smartest room is to find a way to drive your enemy backwards, put the skeer to them and deny them places to hide.
You can do that in one of two ways, one is you seize territory relocate civilians and raze any hiding places, and fight a war of extermination with your enemy.
The second way is to destroy their logistics, surround and cut off your enemy nation, refuse to engage and starve everyone til they submit.
Neither in this case can really be used because of the propaganda war.
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Looks like Obama has openly said that Israel has the right to defend themselves.
Surprised that isn't getting more airtime, considering how so many people accused him of not supporting Israel. I guess if its not unconditional support, its not support at all.
For everyone going on and on about Hamas and how if they were to just lay down their weapons everything would be ok, West Bank is not run by Hamas and what do the Palestinians over there get as a reward? Illegal settlements!Here's just the latest construction plans.
Reuters - Israel has announced plans to press ahead with construction of 1,213 homes on annexed West Bank land, defying international opposition to its settlement policies.
The Israel Land Administration on Monday published notices inviting bids from contractors to build on plots in Ramot and Pisgat Zeev, urban settlements that Israel has declared part of Jerusalem.
The plans call for the building of 607 new homes in Pisgat Zeev and 606 in Ramot. Tens of thousands of Israelis already live in the two areas.
The Israeli anti-settlement group Peace Now said on Tuesday that an additional tender for the construction of 72 homes in the West Bank settlement of Ariel was reissued on Monday after a previous notice failed to attract winning bidders.
Palestinians want to create a state in the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital but they say Israeli settlement building will cripple the viability of any future country.
Israel cites historical and Biblical links to the West Bank, which it captured in a 1967 war. Some 500,000 settlers and about 2.5 million Palestinians live in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.
Most countries consider settlements Israel has built in occupied territory as illegal under international law.
Mohammed Shtayyeh, a member of the central committee of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah movement, said the decision to expand settlements "is another reason why Palestine must go to the United Nations" to seek an upgrade of its status to non-member state.
"We call upon the world to respond to this systematic Israeli policy with an overwhelming vote of support for the enhancement of Palestine's observer-state status," Shtayyeh said, accusing Israel of trying "to thwart international efforts to achieve peace".
Israel and the United States oppose the unilateral Palestinian move, and have called on Abbas to return to peace talks that collapsed in 2010 over the settlement issue.
A status upgrade at the United Nations would grant the Palestinians access to bodies such as the International Criminal Court, where they could file complaints against Israel.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu convened a meeting of top cabinet members on Tuesday to discuss possible Israeli punitive measures against Abbas's Palestinian Authority in response to the U.N. bid.
Jeesh, you're right. Clealy, launching an all out war murdering thousands of civilians and threatening long term stability of the entire region is a much better option.
The ONLY reason the rest of the world doesn't turn against Israel for building these stupid settlements is precicely BECAUSE of the fact they are under constant terrorist attack.
Once again, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for firing rockets endlessly at civilians.
Imagine the city of Calgary decided to illegally expand Evergreen Estates into Tsu Tsina, do you think firing rockets in Calgary is the appropriate response?
Jeesh, you're right. Clealy, launching an all out war murdering thousands of civilians and threatening long term stability of the entire region is a much better option.
The ONLY reason the rest of the world doesn't turn against Israel for building these stupid settlements is precicely BECAUSE of the fact they are under constant terrorist attack.
Once again, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for firing rockets endlessly at civilians.
One of the biggest reasons they're under attack IS the illegal annexing of land and building of illegal settlements.
I agree - there is NO excuse for firing rockets. On either side.
Quote:
Israeli airstrikes on the Gaza Strip on Sunday killed at least 10 members of one family, including a mother and her four children, and struck two buildings used by journalists, inflicting the heaviest toll on civilians since fighting began Wednesday.
Is that not murder too? These peope didn't ask for this. Hamas should have never fired rockets into Israel. But Israel should have NOT retaliated by bombarding civillians with rockets either.
If Israel is "seeking the completion of a ten year quest to ethnicly cleanse the Palestinian people" (how exactly he figures Palestinians are a distinct racial group is another good question) they sure are doing a terrible job of it.
As already has been noted in this thread, Palestinians enjoy a life expectancy as good as or better than many of their arab neighbors. Many of them are able to work within Israel and recieve Israeli health care. Under the 'Isreali Occupation' of the past ten years, the Palestinian population has grown over 30%.
Of course almost everything that Mr. Hedges says is merely opinion or personal conjecture. Meanwhile, instead of making things up about Hamas, we know for a FACT that they refuse to aknowledge to existance of any Jewish state. We know for a FACT that Hamas calls for the extermination of all jews within their charter. We know for a FACT that every modern western country in a world considers them terrorists and murderers.
I know which side I am inclinded to believe.
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Is that not murder too? These peope didn't ask for this. Hamas should have never fired rockets into Israel. But Israel should have NOT retaliated by bombarding civillians with rockets either.
I don't want to open this can of worms. It's wrong to blame any particular civilian for anything.
However, I'm going to be a little cold here. Who voted Hamas into power with a majority? Who put them in a position to turn against Fatah? Who put these thugs in a position where they can antagonize Israel over and over and over as representatives of the Palestinian people?
While it's unfair to say any particular civilian is asking for anything, it's hard to believe the majority of the Palestinian people voted Hamas into power without at least considering the possible repercussions. Hamas didn't seize power. The people of Palestine elected them.
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Is that not murder too? These peope didn't ask for this. Hamas should have never fired rockets into Israel. But Israel should have NOT retaliated by bombarding civillians with rockets either.
The difference is that Israel doesn't have a choice, they either have to respond to being attacked; and since Hamas hides within civilian centers there will always be civilian casualties despite Israels amazing record of avoiding civilians, or they have to deal with hundreds of rockets raining down on their population.
The history is clear: when the rockets stop, so does the violence. When it picks up, Israel is forced to respond.
Good point, however chalking up those casualties due to who was voted into power is wrong. All I'm saying is that Israel is just as guilty right now, in my eyes, anyway. Why do they get a free pass when they bomb an apartment with civillians in it? Why isn't that considered terrorism? It's protected under this big umbrella labelled 'self-defense'...which is ridiculous. Regardless of who Palestinians voted in - it's wrong. Killing women & children, who are complately defenseless is wrong. Bombing a building that houses jounalists because they thought that maybe there was a 'terrorist' in there is wrong.
Is that not murder too? These peope didn't ask for this. Hamas should have never fired rockets into Israel. But Israel should have NOT retaliated by bombarding civillians with rockets either.
Because any kind of negotiation with Hamas has worked out so well. I bet if those dirty Israeli's asked Hamas very nicely to please stop firing rockets into our cities, Hamas would stop doing it right, quick and immediate like.
Unfortunately Hamas situates the rockets in key civillian areas as close to innocent civillians as possible. Hence why Israel started this with a massive paper bombing of Gaza. "Dear People of Gaza, don't stand next to the rocket launches and the Hamas people because we are going to kill them"
At some point you would hope that the people would say to Hamas, get your dirty rockets out of our neighbourhood. I mean the first few would eat a nicely aimed burst from an AK-47 but then cooler heads might prevail because Hamas isn't interested in massive civillian casualties.
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Good point, however chalking up those casualties due to who was voted into power is wrong. All I'm saying is that Israel is just as guilty right now, in my eyes, anyway. Why do they get a free pass when they bomb an apartment with civillians in it? Why isn't that considered terrorism? It's protected under this big umbrella labelled 'self-defense'...which is ridiculous. Regardless of who Palestinians voted in - it's wrong. Killing women & children, who are complately defenseless is wrong. Bombing a building that houses jounalists because they thought that maybe there was a 'terrorist' in there is wrong.
So what are you suggeting they do? Just take the missles being fired at them because Hamas hides within schools and apartments with children in them?
Should they politely ask Hamas to identify exactly where they are hiding?
How many Jews should die before they should be able to respond when the enemy uses civilians as shields?
I don't blame the civilians, I feel quite sorry for them as they are pawns used by both Hezbollah and Hamas (and others) to achieve their PR and military goals.
I can't find the reference now, but I recall many articles during the Cast Lead operations from reputable sources that said that when Israel warned the inhabitants of particular apartment buildings that they will be attacking in 5-10 minutes and even gave warning shots for people to get out, there would be militants at the base of the building forcing people to go back in and even shooting some so that when Israel bombed that location there would be more collateral damage to be used in propaganda.
There is no easy solution for this. Israel goes seemingly out of their way to warn people to get out harms way, but the other side targets civilians as that is their only effective weapon. All they can do is generate fear in the Israeli civilian population for their political gains. There is only one word for it: "terrorism".
And Israel is not without blame. I'm sure that there have been questionable decisions at both the government level and military planning level, and even on the ground, but to say that both sides are equally to blame is preposterous.
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