Would you abuse a baby to entertain a crowd?-Vancouver Humane Society

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Halfcreek

- Are you going to buy a huge ranch and house all of these horses? Feed them, water them, exercise them daily (very gently mind you)?
- Are you going to make sure they get the running in they want to do - but not allow anyone else to watch, for fear those watching may be entertained?
- Do you have a dog? Does he or she entertain you? Do you live in an apartment with a large dog?

- The only choices available are to race the horses in chuck wagon races OR for me to house/feed these animals?
- I don't think the issue is allowing the horses to run. The issue is for them to run in a manner that is safe for the animals.
- When I was in an apartment, I got a cat since they are better fitted to apartment living than a large dog. Common sense should prevail in all things.

Most people know that I am a vegetarian.. have been for 2 decades now. And I became a vegetarian because I think there is a great deal of animal suffering in the animal agribusiness. I think pain and suffering of animals is something most people have out of sight/out of mind. But when it comes to animals in entertainment, I think a lot of animal rights groups go too far. I think the rodeo should evaluate which events are likely to cause injury or death and which ones the animals would participate in naturally. Which is exercise vs which are torture? Saying everything is evil just because it makes the line easier to define just makes it harder for people to be on your side of the line. Again, common sense should prevail.

[Suzles]

Originally Posted by zuluking

I appreciate your post except it didn't answer the question. You rescued two horses and kept them as pets, I presume. Unfortunately, as you know, horses are not like dogs and cats that you can adopt one and keep it in the back yard. The opportunity for horses to be "rescued" is very slim and I expect that the chuckwagon drivers have rescued a countless number more horses than the odd bleeding-heart.

I grew up on a ranch and we rode horses (including our own rescues) for pleasure as well as round-ups. I know the care and attention the animals get as well as the type of land and pastures they roam during "offpeak hours" which is 90% of the time. I also know of the personal connection you get especially due to the shared work and the feeling of one mind / body when working cattle on horseback. I can only imagine that it extends to chuckwagons (and particularly due to the contribution to the driver's livelihood.) The time and energy invested into a horse engenders a strong emotional attachment and losing a horse is emotionally traumatic. I get annoyed when cowboys and chuckwagon drivers are talked about by activists as somehow inhumane, cruel or abusive to their animals as it is just simply so far from the truth as to be laughable. However, the activists get the airtime.

My previous post was initially intended to be tongue-in-cheek, but, in response to your post, you rescued two horses to which you should be commended, just as the same commendment should be made to the chuckwagon drivers. Addressing the root cause of horse abandonment is also important. However, the last statement regarding the "money" is false. There is not a lot of money in this sport or pretty much any rodeo event. There is a love for the sport, the camaraderie with the animals, and a pride in Western heritage.

Thank you for your respectful answer. I do still take issue with your comment regarding the money side of things. http://www.cowboycountrymagazine.com...uction-results. At the bottom of the article it is interesting to note that there is a website to link to called 'half mile of hell'. Sums it up for me pretty well.

[Locke]

All this talk is making me hungry for a horseburger.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Suzles

Thank you for your respectful answer. I do still take issue with your comment regarding the money side of things. http://www.cowboycountrymagazine.com...uction-results. At the bottom of the article it is interesting to note that there is a website to link to called 'half mile of hell'. Sums it up for me pretty well.

It looks like a lot of money, but keep in mind that you're looking at the top 25 drivers in the sport and it sure ain't winning the lottery. There's a heck of a lot of time, work and expense to get there.

Ironic, this being the Flames fan site and the type of coin hockey players rake in.

Oh, and the "half mile of sunshine and buttercups" didn't have the same marketability.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

All this talk is making me hungry for a horseburger.

I had no idea you were french

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Locke

All this talk is making me hungry for a horseburger.

I think Wal Mart is having a sale on their "ground beef".

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

I think Wal Mart is having a sale on their "ground beef".

Don't forget to pick up some Malk, now with Vitamin R!

[PantherExtreme]

Originally Posted by Halfcreek

What I would like to ask the animal right's activists is:
- Are you going to buy a huge ranch and house all of these horses? Feed them, water them, exercise them daily (very gently mind you)?
- Are you going to make sure they get the running in they want to do - but not allow anyone else to watch, for fear those watching may be entertained?
- Do you have a dog? Does he or she entertain you? Do you live in an apartment with a large dog?

Last night's accident was a sad event - but the fact remains - if Chad hadn't rescued those horses in the first place, they would have been dead a long time ago.

What accident? Accident implies its unexpected. Animals die every year in this thing.

Just because you rescue an animal from being put down does not give you moral justification to race it in an event that kills several each year. What about dog fights ok if i saved the dog? Etc. Save a person do i get to make decisions in their life? Can punch him a couple times? He owes me?

If you dont put as much value in a horses life that is fine and morally consistent if you can admit it. I dont value a cows life enough to not eat it. But the " well it could be worse" bit is not really valid excuse to cause any harm.

Again not passing judgment on the stampede but be logically consistant.

[HELPNEEDED]

The chuck wagon races are F'n dumb. It is pretty much a show of death. These guys on the Fan right now are dumb-as-bricks.

[Daradon]

It is pretty sad when you see these accidents at the chucks.

I wonder if they can change the course slightly to make it a bit safer. I haven't watched a ton of the races, but it seems a lot of the problems happen on the tight turns? I'm sure people who know more about than I might be able to come up with something.

I don't think the event needs to be banned, and there will always be accidents in this anything in life, but maybe the course or track can be changed slightly to stem the tide of the accidents?

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by HELPNEEDED

The chuck wagon rates are F'n dumb. It is pretty much a show of death. These guys on the Fan right now are dumb-as-bricks.

I agree, the rates are dumb. Why do companies spend so much on them?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I agree, the rates are dumb. Why do companies spend so much on them?

your helpen

[HELPNEEDED]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

your helpen

hahaha ####...your funny.

[Ne7en]

Chuckwagon deaths will continue to be blanketed by the stampede and those who attend the shows because "it's part of tradition" and "they would have been slaughtered". It's annoying when the stampede tries to put on the "we are animal lovers" persona. Cut the crap and admit its about the enterainment and more importantly the money.

[Resolute 14]

False dichotonmy, Ne7en. It is about entertainment and revenue. But animal welfare is very much important to the Stampede and the cowboys. You choose to blind yourself to that, so I doubt anyone will ever change your mind. But that is a choice you make, not a fact.

[MelBridgeman]

Doesn't the VHS kill more animals in a year than the Stampede?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Daradon

It is pretty sad when you see these accidents at the chucks.

I wonder if they can change the course slightly to make it a bit safer. I haven't watched a ton of the races, but it seems a lot of the problems happen on the tight turns? I'm sure people who know more about than I might be able to come up with something.

I don't think the event needs to be banned, and there will always be accidents in this anything in life, but maybe the course or track can be changed slightly to stem the tide of the accidents?

The crash last night had nothing to do with the track layout or the proximity of the wagons (which have caused problems in the past, and changes have been made to fix those issues).

The left leader suffered from a brain aneurysm and collapsed on the track (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...921/story.html).

Unfortunately, because the horses are all hitched up together like they are, when he went down, the other horses ran into him and things got tangled up and the whole rig fell apart. The outrider ran into the back of the rig.

The right leader and the outrider's horse were euthanized because of the severity of their injuries. The right wheeler sustained non-life threatening injuries, and the left wheeler was uninjured.


I'm not sure why the outrider was so close to the wagon at that point, but he should have been further on the outside of the track, away from the wagons. He might have seen that the wagon was having problems and was moving to provide assistance.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Doesn't the VHS kill more animals in a year than the Stampede?

No Betamax is a known animal killer.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

False dichotonmy, Ne7en. It is about entertainment and revenue. But animal welfare is very much important to the Stampede and the cowboys. You choose to blind yourself to that, so I doubt anyone will ever change your mind. But that is a choice you make, not a fact.

Please, what improvements have been made in the past to improve this event for the animals? I hate how the stampede tries to portray its self as some sort of "animail lover" just continue to blanket the same old story year after year. I just wish they would admit its about the money, and entertainment and cut the crap.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

False dichotonmy, Ne7en. It is about entertainment and revenue. But animal welfare is very much important to the Stampede and the cowboys. You choose to blind yourself to that, so I doubt anyone will ever change your mind. But that is a choice you make, not a fact.

Right up until the point at which they die in a horrible accident? Or is it the compassion they show the animals by euthenizing them after said horrible accident?